GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL

On Mar 16, 7:16 pm, "mack" <macke... DeleteThis @dslextreme.com> wrote:
> "Ed White" <ce.whi... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1174068142.493211.246440@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...> Why do you think that? Any proof, or just wild speculation.
>
> > Ed
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> There is no proof of course, because like anyone else, I cannot foretell the
> future, but based on three Toyotas and several GM and Ford products (Thank
> God I haven't owned a Chrysler product since 1958!) I'm just hazarding the
> guess that The Toys will be around long after the others go bye-bye.
> Speculation, but anything but wild. GM in particular makes cars that make
> themselves obsolete in a few years. If you really want to see a car
> self-destruct, get a Cadillac Catera, (the car that zigs....right into the
> wrecking yard.)

I know of at least one Catera that is not in the junk yard - my next
door neighboor has one. And compared to some of the tired looking
Toyotas in the lot, it looks great. And at least it doesn't cloud over
the parking lot with a blue cloud like one of my other neighbor's
Camry does.

Making generalitions about any particular brand of car based on
limited experience can be dangerous. I am sure there are plenty of
good looking and running Cateras on the highways. And I am sure there
are plenty in the junk yard as well (and I am sure there are plenty of
Camrys in the junk yards as well). Cateras were never particualrly
popular and I suspect a lot of the second hand ones didn't end up in
the hands of people that really care about cars.

Ed
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

On Mar 16, 8:06 pm, "Mike Hunter" <mikehu....RemoveThis@mailcity.com> wrote:
> No so, all F150s with the trailer tow package have the 4.5 V8 standard.
>
> mike

But not all F150s have the Trailer Tow Package. And no F150 come with
a 4.5 V8.

You said "The F150 has a six speed and a V8 is standard as well." This
is an incorrect statement since neither a V-8 or a six speed
transmission is standard (and the six speed transmission isn't even an
option). And your revised statement is also incorrect. Go to www.fordvehicles.com
and build an F150. Selecting the Trailer Tow Package does not reuire
the V-8 or an automatic transmission. And finally, Ford doesn't offer
a 6 speed transmission in the 2007 F150 (they do in the 2007
Expedition).

The following information was clipped directly from the 2007 Ford F150
Ordering Guide:

------

TRAILER TOW PACKAGE (535)
Usage: Required for towing over 5,000 lbs.
Availability:
· All F-150 units
Includes:
· Class IV trailer hitch receiver
· 7-pin wiring harness
· Upgraded radiator & upgraded auxiliary transmission oil cooler [req.
4.6L V8
(99W), 5.4L 3V V8 (995) or 5.4L 3V V8 FFV(99V) engine; auxiliary
transmission oil cooler only w/4.2L V6 A/T (992/44Q)]
Optional Equipment:
· Heavy duty 72-amp battery (59H) [incl. when ordered w/both Satellite
Radio
(91S) & Rear Seat Entertainment System (915)]

------

Notice that the Trailer Tow Package is availale with all F150 Units.
Also notice that it includes an "auxiliary transmission oil cooler
only w/4.2L V6 A/T" Please admit that the trailer tow package is
available with the 4.2L V-6.

As for the Powertrain Options:

-----

POWERTRAIN
4.2L EFI V6/5-Spd. Manual O/D
4.2L EFI v6/4-Spd. Auto O/D
4.6L EFI V8/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D
5.4L 3V EFI V8/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D
5.4L 3V EFI V8 FFV/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D

-----

Ed

> "Ed White" <ce.whi....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1174082548.226233.187370@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Mar 16, 4:54 pm, "Mike Hunter" <mikehu....RemoveThis@mailcity.com> wrote:
> >> Get real. Ford is the Silverado competition not the Tundra. Ford sells
> >> 35%
> >> of the full-size trucks in the US. Chevy 30% and Toyota a measly 5%.
> >> The
> >> base engine in the Tundra is a only a V6. The F150 has a six speed and a
> >> V8
> >> is standard as well. The Tundra is just beginning to catch up to the
> >> build
> >> quality of what GM, Ford and Dodge have been offering in their truck for
> >> years
>
> >> mike
>
> > Mike,
>
> > Actually Ford and Chevrolet also have standard V-6s in their half ton
> > pickup trucks. When I was shopping for a pickup last year it was much
> > easier to find a V-6 F150 than a V-6 Tundra. There was not a single
> > V-6 Tundra on any of the local lots for me to test drive. V-6 F150
> > were easy to fiind.
>
> > Ed- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

On Mar 17, 12:49 am, Pete Moss <spragh... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> Duh, yourself. You're the one who made the spurious comment about the
> Tundra having a V6 as the base engine. Everybody's full-size truck has a
> V6 as the base engine on paper so they can say they offer it as a fuel
> efficient option. How many of them actually show up on car lots?

Crossroads Ford in Cary NC claims to have 14 2007 F150s with V-6s in
their inventory
Capital Ford in Raleigh NC claims to have 24 2007 F150s with V-6s in
their inventory

Ed
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

Viperkiller wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:53:54 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
> <mikehunt2 DeleteThis @mailcity.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess we can assume you do not go to many bone yards. As a percentage of
>> the trucks sold in the US, there are a hell of a lot more rusted Toyota
>> trucks in the bone yards
>>
>> mike
>>
>
> I'm sure that's something that you really kept track of and have proof
> of. Perhaps you read too many GM brochures.

Why would a Toyota driver have to be a frequenter of bone yards?

Dante
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno.RemoveThis@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:axGKh.62$282.23@trndny04...
> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 20:23:34 -0600, dh wrote:
>
>> "C. E. White" <cewhite3.RemoveThis@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:45f9b22b$1@kcnews01...
>>> Borrowed off the Internet....I am just the messenger, although I agree
>>> that the new Tundra ads are deliberately misleading....
>>>
>>> Lou Kaltenstein
>>> President
>>> Gene Norris Buick-GMC Trucks Inc./Norris Auto Group 18170 Bagley Rd
>>> Middleburg Hts., Ohio 44130
>>>
>>> There has been a lot of talk about Toyota Tundra's new ads and how
>>> impressive they are. Here are some myths about their spots that I have
>>> found and that should be refuted. Also, they are offering a "IVC" type
>>> program on Tundra to help with sales.
>>>
>> [chop]
>>
>> Oh My God! An ad that's actually a dramatization! You could knock me
>> over with a feather!
>>
>> Lou's just jealous. In this article, note the SPD (sales per dealer)
>> figures:
>>
>> http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3332
>
> No wonder Chevy dealers are just about GIVING the Cobalt away!

Are they? At free, a Cobalt would almost be a good deal...

.... almost.

>> (towards the bottom of the article proper) Buick gets a mention that
>> explains Lou's jealousy.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

"Ed White" <ce.white3.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174328637.340570.64100@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 16, 7:16 pm, "mack" <macke....TakeThisOut@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>> "Ed White" <ce.whi....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1174068142.493211.246440@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...> Why do you
>> think that? Any proof, or just wild speculation.
>>
>> > Ed
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> There is no proof of course, because like anyone else, I cannot foretell
>> the
>> future, but based on three Toyotas and several GM and Ford products
>> (Thank
>> God I haven't owned a Chrysler product since 1958!) I'm just hazarding
>> the
>> guess that The Toys will be around long after the others go bye-bye.
>> Speculation, but anything but wild. GM in particular makes cars that
>> make
>> themselves obsolete in a few years. If you really want to see a car
>> self-destruct, get a Cadillac Catera, (the car that zigs....right into
>> the
>> wrecking yard.)
>
> I know of at least one Catera that is not in the junk yard - my next
> door neighboor has one. And compared to some of the tired looking
> Toyotas in the lot, it looks great. And at least it doesn't cloud over
> the parking lot with a blue cloud like one of my other neighbor's
> Camry does.


I've owned a total of 4 Toyotas. In all 4 instances, the cars *never* needed
oil added between changes. I can assure you that your neighbor's blue cloud
problem is due to shoddy maintenance, not bad workmanship.
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

"Dante" ...
> Viperkiller wrote:
, "Mike Hunter"
>>
>>> I guess we can assume you do not go to many bone yards. As a percentage
>>> of the trucks sold in the US, there are a hell of a lot more rusted
>>> Toyota trucks in the bone yards
>>>
>>> mike
>>>
>>
>> I'm sure that's something that you really kept track of and have proof
>> of. Perhaps you read too many GM brochures.
>
> Why would a Toyota driver have to be a frequenter of bone yards?
>
> Dante

*high-five*

Natalie
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

Wickeddoll® wrote:
> "Dante" ...
>> Viperkiller wrote:
> , "Mike Hunter"
>>>> I guess we can assume you do not go to many bone yards. As a percentage
>>>> of the trucks sold in the US, there are a hell of a lot more rusted
>>>> Toyota trucks in the bone yards
>>>>
>>>> mike
>>>>
>>> I'm sure that's something that you really kept track of and have proof
>>> of. Perhaps you read too many GM brochures.
>> Why would a Toyota driver have to be a frequenter of bone yards?
>>
>> Dante
>
> *high-five*
>
> Natalie
>
>
Thx
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

Aparently have not been following the thread. The dicsssion was about
Tundra phony TV ads and their 10,000 towing ability. . If one is looking to
buy a truck with which to tow they can not buy a Ford equipped to tow pack
that does not have a V8. You are corect the six speed, is a late option,
not currantaly available



mike

Ford dealer Guide Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight (Lbs.) - Automatic
Transmission

Engine Axle Ratio GCWR (Lbs.) 126 -
inch wheel base 144.5 - inch wheel base
4.2L SEFI V6 3.55 10000 5200 5100
(trailer tow package requires 4.6L V
4.6L Triton® SEFI V8 3.55 11500 6600 - 6200
5.4L Triton® 3-valve SEFI V8 3.55 13000 8000 - 7700

(All Ford trucks since the late eignties have required an automatic tranny
if the TT option was added).

Trailer tow package

Includes Class IV trailer hitch receiver, 7-pin wiring harness, upgraded
radiator and upgraded auxiliary transmission oil cooler (requires 4.6L or
5.4L Triton® V; aux. trans. oil cooler only with 4.2L V6 A/T

"


mike


Ed White" <ce.white3.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174329908.928225.96650@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 16, 8:06 pm, "Mike Hunter" <mikehu....DeleteThis@mailcity.com> wrote:
> No so, all F150s with the trailer tow package have the 4.6 V8 standard.
>
> mike

But not all F150s have the Trailer Tow Package. And no F150 come with
a 4.5 V8.

You said "The F150 has a six speed and a V8 is standard as well." This
is an incorrect statement since neither a V-8 or a six speed
transmission is standard (and the six speed transmission isn't even an
option). And your revised statement is also incorrect. Go to
www.fordvehicles.com
and build an F150. Selecting the Trailer Tow Package does not reuire
the V-8 or an automatic transmission. And finally, Ford doesn't offer
a 6 speed transmission in the 2007 F150 (they do in the 2007
Expedition).

The following information was clipped directly from the 2007 Ford F150
Ordering Guide:

------

TRAILER TOW PACKAGE (535)
Usage: Required for towing over 5,000 lbs.
Availability:
· All F-150 units
Includes:
· Class IV trailer hitch receiver
· 7-pin wiring harness
· Upgraded radiator & upgraded auxiliary transmission oil cooler [req.
4.6L V8
(99W), 5.4L 3V V8 (995) or 5.4L 3V V8 FFV(99V) engine; auxiliary
transmission oil cooler only w/4.2L V6 A/T (992/44Q)]
Optional Equipment:
· Heavy duty 72-amp battery (59H) [incl. when ordered w/both Satellite
Radio
(91S) & Rear Seat Entertainment System (915)]

------

Notice that the Trailer Tow Package is availale with all F150 Units.
Also notice that it includes an "auxiliary transmission oil cooler
only w/4.2L V6 A/T" Please admit that the trailer tow package is
available with the 4.2L V-6.

As for the Powertrain Options:

-----

POWERTRAIN
4.2L EFI V6/5-Spd. Manual O/D
4.2L EFI v6/4-Spd. Auto O/D
4.6L EFI V8/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D
5.4L 3V EFI V8/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D
5.4L 3V EFI V8 FFV/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D

-----

Ed

> "Ed White" <ce.whi....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1174082548.226233.187370@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Mar 16, 4:54 pm, "Mike Hunter" <mikehu....DeleteThis@mailcity.com> wrote:
> >> Get real. Ford is the Silverado competition not the Tundra. Ford
> >> sells
> >> 35%
> >> of the full-size trucks in the US. Chevy 30% and Toyota a measly 5%.
> >> The
> >> base engine in the Tundra is a only a V6. The F150 has a six speed and
> >> a
> >> V8
> >> is standard as well. The Tundra is just beginning to catch up to the
> >> build
> >> quality of what GM, Ford and Dodge have been offering in their truck
> >> for
> >> years
>
> >> mike
>
> > Mike,
>
> > Actually Ford and Chevrolet also have standard V-6s in their half ton
> > pickup trucks. When I was shopping for a pickup last year it was much
> > easier to find a V-6 F150 than a V-6 Tundra. There was not a single
> > V-6 Tundra on any of the local lots for me to test drive. V-6 F150
> > were easy to fiind.
>
> > Ed- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2.DeleteThis@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:8dudnc62HZndt2LYnZ2dnUVZ_qGjnZ2d@ptd.net...
> Aparently have not been following the thread. The dicsssion was about
> Tundra phony TV ads and their 10,000 towing ability. . If one is looking
> to buy a truck with which to tow they can not buy a Ford equipped to tow
> pack that does not have a V8. You are corect the six speed, is a late
> option, not currantaly available

I agree with you that the new Tundra ads are deceptive. That is not an
issue. In my post I was trying to correct all the errors you made regarding
Ford trucks. Apparently you did not bother to read my post and you reposted
more incorrect information regarding Ford trucks with the V-6.

I'll try to set you straight about the Ford one more time -

GO READ THE 2007 F150 ORDERING GUIDE - it definitely allows the Towing
Package with the V-6 and a manual transmission. And if you use the Ford
Website to build your F150, it will let you build one that way. Dealers
don't order many of them that way, but they do occasionally. I had no
trouble at all finding a manual transmission V-6 with the towing package in
a dealers stock (VIN 1FTRF12237NA36871 at Beach Ford Inc., 2717 Virginia
Beach Boulevard, Virginia Beach, VA). I had no problem finding a V-6
Automatic with the towing package either. How many VINs do you want me to
post to prove your are wrong? For a normal person finding one should be
enough to prove that you can order a V-6 Manual Transmission F150 with the
towing package, but you don't seem to be able to admit it when you are
wrong.

I also like the way you tried to cover your mistake in claiming the 2007
F150s got the six speed automatic. I assume available in the 2008 model
counts as "late availability" in your mind. Wouldn't it have been easier to
admit you were wrong about that as well?

And is the 4.5 V-8 a late availability option also?

Ed


> mike
>
> Ford dealer Guide Maximum Loaded Trailer Weight (Lbs.) - Automatic
> Transmission
>
> Engine Axle Ratio GCWR (Lbs.) 126 -
> inch wheel base 144.5 - inch wheel base
> 4.2L SEFI V6 3.55 10000 5200 5100
> (trailer tow package requires 4.6L V
> 4.6L Triton® SEFI V8 3.55 11500 6600 - 6200
> 5.4L Triton® 3-valve SEFI V8 3.55 13000 8000 - 7700
>
> (All Ford trucks since the late eignties have required an automatic tranny
> if the TT option was added).
>
> Trailer tow package
>
> Includes Class IV trailer hitch receiver, 7-pin wiring harness, upgraded
> radiator and upgraded auxiliary transmission oil cooler (requires 4.6L or
> 5.4L Triton® V; aux. trans. oil cooler only with 4.2L V6 A/T
>
> "
>
>
> mike
>
>
> Ed White" <ce.white3.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1174329908.928225.96650@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 16, 8:06 pm, "Mike Hunter" <mikehu....DeleteThis@mailcity.com> wrote:
>> No so, all F150s with the trailer tow package have the 4.6 V8 standard.
>>
>> mike
>
> But not all F150s have the Trailer Tow Package. And no F150 come with
> a 4.5 V8.
>
> You said "The F150 has a six speed and a V8 is standard as well." This
> is an incorrect statement since neither a V-8 or a six speed
> transmission is standard (and the six speed transmission isn't even an
> option). And your revised statement is also incorrect. Go to
> www.fordvehicles.com
> and build an F150. Selecting the Trailer Tow Package does not reuire
> the V-8 or an automatic transmission. And finally, Ford doesn't offer
> a 6 speed transmission in the 2007 F150 (they do in the 2007
> Expedition).
>
> The following information was clipped directly from the 2007 Ford F150
> Ordering Guide:
>
> ------
>
> TRAILER TOW PACKAGE (535)
> Usage: Required for towing over 5,000 lbs.
> Availability:
> · All F-150 units
> Includes:
> · Class IV trailer hitch receiver
> · 7-pin wiring harness
> · Upgraded radiator & upgraded auxiliary transmission oil cooler [req.
> 4.6L V8
> (99W), 5.4L 3V V8 (995) or 5.4L 3V V8 FFV(99V) engine; auxiliary
> transmission oil cooler only w/4.2L V6 A/T (992/44Q)]
> Optional Equipment:
> · Heavy duty 72-amp battery (59H) [incl. when ordered w/both Satellite
> Radio
> (91S) & Rear Seat Entertainment System (915)]
>
> ------
>
> Notice that the Trailer Tow Package is availale with all F150 Units.
> Also notice that it includes an "auxiliary transmission oil cooler
> only w/4.2L V6 A/T" Please admit that the trailer tow package is
> available with the 4.2L V-6.
>
> As for the Powertrain Options:
>
> -----
>
> POWERTRAIN
> 4.2L EFI V6/5-Spd. Manual O/D
> 4.2L EFI v6/4-Spd. Auto O/D
> 4.6L EFI V8/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D
> 5.4L 3V EFI V8/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D
> 5.4L 3V EFI V8 FFV/Electronic 4-Spd. Auto O/D
>
> -----
>
> Ed
>
>> "Ed White" <ce.whi....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1174082548.226233.187370@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Mar 16, 4:54 pm, "Mike Hunter" <mikehu....DeleteThis@mailcity.com> wrote:
>> >> Get real. Ford is the Silverado competition not the Tundra. Ford
>> >> sells
>> >> 35%
>> >> of the full-size trucks in the US. Chevy 30% and Toyota a measly 5%.
>> >> The
>> >> base engine in the Tundra is a only a V6. The F150 has a six speed
>> >> and a
>> >> V8
>> >> is standard as well. The Tundra is just beginning to catch up to the
>> >> build
>> >> quality of what GM, Ford and Dodge have been offering in their truck
>> >> for
>> >> years
>>
>> >> mike
>>
>> > Mike,
>>
>> > Actually Ford and Chevrolet also have standard V-6s in their half ton
>> > pickup trucks. When I was shopping for a pickup last year it was much
>> > easier to find a V-6 F150 than a V-6 Tundra. There was not a single
>> > V-6 Tundra on any of the local lots for me to test drive. V-6 F150
>> > were easy to fiind.
>>
>> > Ed- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:07:20 -0600, Dante <dante.TakeThisOut@xmission.com> wrote:

>Viperkiller wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 19:53:54 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
>> <mikehunt2.TakeThisOut@mailcity.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I guess we can assume you do not go to many bone yards. As a percentage of
>>> the trucks sold in the US, there are a hell of a lot more rusted Toyota
>>> trucks in the bone yards
>>>
>>> mike
>>>
>>
>> I'm sure that's something that you really kept track of and have proof
>> of. Perhaps you read too many GM brochures.
>
>Why would a Toyota driver have to be a frequenter of bone yards?
>
>Dante

Excellent point. Mike Hunter is a Ford owner so that explains why he
frequents bone yards.
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:13:38 GMT, "C. E. White"
<cewhite RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote:

>I agree with you that the new Tundra ads are deceptive


No where near as despective as some of detriots tow ratings. I am not
pro toyota here but Detriot uses no science with its ratings and Ford
inflated their max 1/2 ton ratings because of Yota but the facts are
it does not have near the power than the yota does. If you do the math
and factor is axle ratio, rated torque and RPM, and transmision
ratios, the Yota beats them all is actal drawbar or pulling power. It
takes power to move the load, not a inflated rating. Be glad there is
a Toyota because Detriot will be forced to improve their trucks
against it and consumers will get a better product in the end. Toyota
has their act together with the new Tundra with a 5.7 and a 6 speed
and they even spaced the tranny ratios properly to best apply power to
load (you can hit torque peak in the first three gears by 58 MPH in it
at 24, 41 and 58 MPH respecably vs 32 ,54 and 85 MPH for Ford, 39, 65
and 96 MPH for GM 6.0 Vortec max and 33, 60 and 99 MPH for Dodge Hemi.
Not only does the Toyota have more usable and effective gearing to get
load moving, it also has more torque as well to apply to those gears
so it is simple physics here. The Yota has the greatest mechanical
advantage over the load via gearing and availble power so it will pull
a load better than any of them. Kinda a like comparing a small guy
with a pry bar against a big guy with a bigger pry bar try to move
something. The Yota has the bigger guy (more torque) and the longer
bar (better effective gearing) so the end result is quite predicable
before you even hitch it up to a load. The scary part is that the Yota
actaully has more true towing/pulling power to move a load than all
new gas powered 3/4 and 1 ton trucks if you do the math since GM no
longer has the 8.1 and the Hemi is no tow king. A Ford V10 would be
the only one to likley meet of exceed it. (we are talking actual
towing power that can be aplied to load not weather it is a 1/2 ton
or 3/4 ton chassis) Given the math behind the new Tndra, if they go
into the 3/4 and 1 ton market Detriot better get their act together
because if Yota can make a 1/2 ton that can pull that hard just think
of what they could do with a 3/4 ton or bigger.
-----------------
TheSnoMan.com
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

"SnoMan" <admin.TakeThisOut@snoman.com> wrote in message
news:o4hvv2hiptimfos27kv0vfuq2sjtgjqrmb@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 03:13:38 GMT, "C. E. White"
> <cewhite.TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>I agree with you that the new Tundra ads are deceptive
>
>
> No where near as despective as some of detriots tow ratings. I am
> not
> pro toyota here but Detriot uses no science with its ratings and
> Ford
> inflated their max 1/2 ton ratings because of Yota but the facts are
> it does not have near the power than the yota does. If you do the
> math
> and factor is axle ratio, rated torque and RPM, and transmision
> ratios, the Yota beats them all is actal drawbar or pulling power.
> It
> takes power to move the load, not a inflated rating. Be glad there
> is
> a Toyota because Detriot will be forced to improve their trucks
> against it and consumers will get a better product in the end.
> Toyota
> has their act together with the new Tundra with a 5.7 and a 6 speed
> and they even spaced the tranny ratios properly to best apply power
> to
> load (you can hit torque peak in the first three gears by 58 MPH in
> it
> at 24, 41 and 58 MPH respecably vs 32 ,54 and 85 MPH for Ford, 39,
> 65
> and 96 MPH for GM 6.0 Vortec max and 33, 60 and 99 MPH for Dodge
> Hemi.
> Not only does the Toyota have more usable and effective gearing to
> get
> load moving, it also has more torque as well to apply to those gears
> so it is simple physics here. The Yota has the greatest mechanical
> advantage over the load via gearing and availble power so it will
> pull
> a load better than any of them. Kinda a like comparing a small guy
> with a pry bar against a big guy with a bigger pry bar try to move
> something. The Yota has the bigger guy (more torque) and the longer
> bar (better effective gearing) so the end result is quite predicable
> before you even hitch it up to a load. The scary part is that the
> Yota
> actaully has more true towing/pulling power to move a load than all
> new gas powered 3/4 and 1 ton trucks if you do the math since GM no
> longer has the 8.1 and the Hemi is no tow king. A Ford V10 would be
> the only one to likley meet of exceed it. (we are talking actual
> towing power that can be aplied to load not weather it is a 1/2 ton
> or 3/4 ton chassis) Given the math behind the new Tndra, if they go
> into the 3/4 and 1 ton market Detriot better get their act together
> because if Yota can make a 1/2 ton that can pull that hard just
> think
> of what they could do with a 3/4 ton or bigger.
> -----------------
> TheSnoMan.com

It is not the going that bothers me, it is the stopping....

If I wanted to tow a heavy load, I would go for an F250/F350. They
also have a six speed transmission. Ford/GM/Dodge all have 3/4 and 1
ton trucks for people that actually need to tow 10,000 lbs. Toyota is
not trying to create that distinction i.e., they don't have a separate
Tundra HD model to compete with the F350/350 or Silverado HD. If you
want to compare the Tundra to other trucks capable of towing heavy
loads, then I contend you must compare it to the heavy duty pick-ups
from Ford, GM, and Dodge. And if you want to limit your discussion to
big "gas" engines, then here are the engine comparisons:

Tundra - 5.7L V-8 - 381 hp @ 5600 rpm 401 lb.-ft. @ 3600 rpm
F250 - 6.8L V-10 - 362 hp @ 4750 rpm 457 lb. -ft @ 3250 rpm
Silverado HD2500 6.0L V-8 - 367 hp @ 5500 rpm 375 lb. - ft @ 4300 rpm
Dodge 2500 - 345 hp @ 5400 rpm 375 lb. - ft @ 4200 rpm

For towing I would contend that torque is more important that
horsepower -especially horsepower at 5600 rpm. Which engine would you
rather have to tow a heavy load? The one with 401 lb.-ft of torque at
3600 rpm, or the one with 457 lb.- ft of torque at 3250 rpm? F250s
also have a six speed automatic transmission and offer a variety of
rear gear ratios? So if you wanted to tow a heavy load, which truck
would be the better choice?

As an aside - I run a small farm and raise cattle (I sell around 20
claves a year to the feeder calf market). I can't justify owning a HD
truck and cattle trailer for my 1 or 2 trips to the sale a year, so I
hire one of my neighbors to do it for me. He has a fifth wheel cattle
trailer that can haul 20 to 25 calves at a time (figure around 9,000
lbs of cattle + the trailer). Until this year he has always used an
F250 with a diesel to pull the trailer. When he moved some cattle for
me earlier this year, he had a new F350. I assumed it was a diesel. I
was curious how the "new" powerstroke diesel performed compared to the
older versions. I started asking him about the truck and he was very
positive. Said it pulled really well and that he really liked the
engine except the fuel economy was not as good. This confused me
because I though the new diesels were supposed to be better. When I
mentioned this, he just laughed. He explained he didn't get a diesel.
His new truck had a 5.4L V-8. He said it had plenty of power and
towing the trailer was not a problem at all. It was his opinion than
even the V-10 was overkill and the expensive diesel option was
completely unnecessary.

Ed
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