GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL

Time will tell what the Tundra can do. Sounds like the GM people are
nervous about somebody coming up with competition. He forgets to mention
taht also with the 4.3 axle ratio the Tndra has a 6 speed auto which
probably about equals their higher ratios with the 4 speed auto that they
have. Scott
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:51:09 -0400, "C. E. White"
<cewhite3.RemoveThis@removemindspring.com> wrote:

>Borrowed off the Internet....I am just the messenger, although I agree
>that the new Tundra ads are deliberately misleading....
>
>Lou Kaltenstein
>President
>Gene Norris Buick-GMC Trucks Inc./Norris Auto Group
>18170 Bagley Rd
>Middleburg Hts., Ohio 44130
>
>There has been a lot of talk about Toyota Tundra's new ads and how
>impressive they are. Here are some myths about their spots that I have
>found and that should be refuted. Also, they are offering a "IVC" type
>program on Tundra to help with sales.
>
>I would guess all of you have seen the ad where the Tundra pulls a
>trailer up a steep grade (a 'see-saw'), and then barrels down hill and
>locks the brakes up just before the end of the ramp. Many of you have
>commented on how well done the spot is visually. However, here are the
>actual facts to share with people:
>
>1. The V.O. at the beginning of the spot says...."It's tough pushing
>10,000 lbs up a steep grade". Myth: Toyota would like the audience to
>believe the trailer is 10,000 lbs. Fact: It's a 5,000 lb truck pulling
>a 5,000 lb trailer. A little slight of hand? You bet.
>
>2. Then, on the way down the grade, the camera zooms in on the brakes
>as the vehicles comes to a screeching halt just prior to the end of
>ramp. Next time you see the ad....look for the 'mice type'. It
>indicates the trailer is equipped with electric brakes. Fact....the
>electric brakes stop the trailer -- not the truck. A little slight of
>hand? You bet.
>
>3. And why does Toyota have bigger brake pads? They need them....their
>truck is heavier. Stopping distance between our truck and theirs is
>virtually identical. And why does Toyota have a 6 speed transmission?
>To improve their fuel economy....which is still 2 mpg less than ours.
>
>4. And don't forget....their big V8 has one axle ratio -- a 4.3. Suck
>fuel much? Our trucks offer several axle options to optimize towing
>and fuel economy.
>
>Ed
>
Right... because GM ads have never been misleading.

Don't present yourself as someone who's just a messenger. You
obviously enjoy presenting acrimonious data (information would be an
inaccurate term). Just because a GM dealer is losing sales and makes
a claim, doesn't make it so.
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

On Mar 16, 12:53 am, Viperkiller <n....TakeThisOut@no.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:51:09 -0400, "C. E. White"
>
>
>
>
>
> <cewhi....TakeThisOut@removemindspring.com> wrote:
> >Borrowed off the Internet....I am just the messenger, although I agree
> >that the new Tundra ads are deliberately misleading....
>
> >Lou Kaltenstein
> >President
> >Gene Norris Buick-GMC Trucks Inc./Norris Auto Group
> >18170 Bagley Rd
> >Middleburg Hts., Ohio 44130
>
> >There has been a lot of talk about Toyota Tundra's new ads and how
> >impressive they are. Here are some myths about their spots that I have
> >found and that should be refuted. Also, they are offering a "IVC" type
> >program on Tundra to help with sales.
>
> >I would guess all of you have seen the ad where the Tundra pulls a
> >trailer up a steep grade (a 'see-saw'), and then barrels down hill and
> >locks the brakes up just before the end of the ramp. Many of you have
> >commented on how well done the spot is visually. However, here are the
> >actual facts to share with people:
>
> >1. The V.O. at the beginning of the spot says...."It's tough pushing
> >10,000 lbs up a steep grade". Myth: Toyota would like the audience to
> >believe the trailer is 10,000 lbs. Fact: It's a 5,000 lb truck pulling
> >a 5,000 lb trailer. A little slight of hand? You bet.
>
> >2. Then, on the way down the grade, the camera zooms in on the brakes
> >as the vehicles comes to a screeching halt just prior to the end of
> >ramp. Next time you see the ad....look for the 'mice type'. It
> >indicates the trailer is equipped with electric brakes. Fact....the
> >electric brakes stop the trailer -- not the truck. A little slight of
> >hand? You bet.
>
> >3. And why does Toyota have bigger brake pads? They need them....their
> >truck is heavier. Stopping distance between our truck and theirs is
> >virtually identical. And why does Toyota have a 6 speed transmission?
> >To improve their fuel economy....which is still 2 mpg less than ours.
>
> >4. And don't forget....their big V8 has one axle ratio -- a 4.3. Suck
> >fuel much? Our trucks offer several axle options to optimize towing
> >and fuel economy.
>
> >Ed
>
> Right... because GM ads have never been misleading.
>
> Don't present yourself as someone who's just a messenger. You
> obviously enjoy presenting acrimonious data (information would be an
> inaccurate term). Just because a GM dealer is losing sales and makes
> a claim, doesn't make it so.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I persoanlly think the Tundra ads passed over the line form less than
honest to down right misleading. The adds for the "old" Tundra were
merely misleading. Some of the ads for the new Tundra might not be
outright lies, but they are so close as to be indistingishable from
lies. Like othes have pointed out, ads often venture into gray areas
as far as truthfulness. However the two "dramatic" ads for the new
Tundra are among the least honest ads for a vechile I have seen in a
long time. Hiding the tether on the drag race ad (while claiming it is
an "actual demonstartion") and the faults with the seesaw ad pointed
out above indicate to me that Toyota is tryng to mislead Consumers
about the capabilities of the new Tundra. Maybe that is OK with you. I
think it is disgusting. I think the Tacoma ads are merely silly
(although funny) since they show capabilities that no one believes are
true (meteor strike survial, falling off a cliff without damage,
tougher than a sea monster, etc.). However, the new Tundra ads are at
attempt to lead you to believe that the new Tundra has characteristics
that they may not actually have.

Ed
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

"C. E. White" <cewhite3 DeleteThis @removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:45f9b22b$1@kcnews01...
> Borrowed off the Internet....I am just the messenger, although I agree
> that the new Tundra ads are deliberately misleading....
>
> Lou Kaltenstein
> President
> Gene Norris Buick-GMC Trucks Inc./Norris Auto Group
> 18170 Bagley Rd
> Middleburg Hts., Ohio 44130
>
> There has been a lot of talk about Toyota Tundra's new ads and how
> impressive they are. Here are some myths about their spots that I have
> found and that should be refuted. Also, they are offering a "IVC" type
> program on Tundra to help with sales.
>
> I would guess all of you have seen the ad where the Tundra pulls a trailer
> up a steep grade (a 'see-saw'), and then barrels down hill and locks the
> brakes up just before the end of the ramp. Many of you have commented on
> how well done the spot is visually. However, here are the actual facts to
> share with people:
>
> 1. The V.O. at the beginning of the spot says...."It's tough pushing
> 10,000 lbs up a steep grade". Myth: Toyota would like the audience to
> believe the trailer is 10,000 lbs. Fact: It's a 5,000 lb truck pulling a
> 5,000 lb trailer. A little slight of hand? You bet.
>

It's tough pushing 10,000 lbs up a steep grade. I may not be a numbers
cruncher by trade,
but the last time I looked, 5000 lbs of truck plus 5000 lbs of trailer
equals 10,000 lbs.
Where's the deception? No 'sleight' of hand here.



> 2. Then, on the way down the grade, the camera zooms in on the brakes as
> the vehicles comes to a screeching halt just prior to the end of ramp.
> Next time you see the ad....look for the 'mice type'. It indicates the
> trailer is equipped with electric brakes. Fact....the electric brakes stop
> the trailer -- not the truck. A little slight of hand? You bet.

I guess the 'mice type' was large enough for you to read, and to note the
fact
that the trailer has electric brakes. No deception here either.
>
> 3. And why does Toyota have bigger brake pads? They need them....their
> truck is heavier. Stopping distance between our truck and theirs is
> virtually identical. And why does Toyota have a 6 speed transmission? To
> improve their fuel economy....which is still 2 mpg less than ours.

You say "virtually" identical. What are the ACTUAL stopping distances of
the
two trucks?????
A six speed transmission is inherently more versatile than a four speed.
SO?

>
> 4. And don't forget....their big V8 has one axle ratio -- a 4.3. Suck fuel
> much? Our trucks offer several axle options to optimize towing and fuel
> economy.
>
> Ed

Mebbe, but the Toyota will still be driving like a new truck when the GMC is
on
its third owner, or in a boneyard.
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

On Mar 16, 1:19 pm, "mack" <macke....RemoveThis@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> "C. E. White" <cewhi....RemoveThis@removemindspring.com> wrote in messagenews:45f9b22b$1@kcnews01...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Borrowed off the Internet....I am just the messenger, although I agree
> > that the new Tundra ads are deliberately misleading....
>
> > Lou Kaltenstein
> > President
> > Gene Norris Buick-GMC Trucks Inc./Norris Auto Group
> > 18170 Bagley Rd
> > Middleburg Hts., Ohio 44130
>
> > There has been a lot of talk about Toyota Tundra's new ads and how
> > impressive they are. Here are some myths about their spots that I have
> > found and that should be refuted. Also, they are offering a "IVC" type
> > program on Tundra to help with sales.
>
> > I would guess all of you have seen the ad where the Tundra pulls a trailer
> > up a steep grade (a 'see-saw'), and then barrels down hill and locks the
> > brakes up just before the end of the ramp. Many of you have commented on
> > how well done the spot is visually. However, here are the actual facts to
> > share with people:
>
> > 1. The V.O. at the beginning of the spot says...."It's tough pushing
> > 10,000 lbs up a steep grade". Myth: Toyota would like the audience to
> > believe the trailer is 10,000 lbs. Fact: It's a 5,000 lb truck pulling a
> > 5,000 lb trailer. A little slight of hand? You bet.
>
> It's tough pushing 10,000 lbs up a steep grade. I may not be a numbers
> cruncher by trade,
> but the last time I looked, 5000 lbs of truck plus 5000 lbs of trailer
> equals 10,000 lbs.
> Where's the deception? No 'sleight' of hand here.
>
> > 2. Then, on the way down the grade, the camera zooms in on the brakes as
> > the vehicles comes to a screeching halt just prior to the end of ramp.
> > Next time you see the ad....look for the 'mice type'. It indicates the
> > trailer is equipped with electric brakes. Fact....the electric brakes stop
> > the trailer -- not the truck. A little slight of hand? You bet.
>
> I guess the 'mice type' was large enough for you to read, and to note the
> fact
> that the trailer has electric brakes. No deception here either.
>
>
>
> > 3. And why does Toyota have bigger brake pads? They need them....their
> > truck is heavier. Stopping distance between our truck and theirs is
> > virtually identical. And why does Toyota have a 6 speed transmission? To
> > improve their fuel economy....which is still 2 mpg less than ours.
>
> You say "virtually" identical. What are the ACTUAL stopping distances of
> the
> two trucks?????
> A six speed transmission is inherently more versatile than a four speed.
> SO?
>
>
>
> > 4. And don't forget....their big V8 has one axle ratio -- a 4.3. Suck fuel
> > much? Our trucks offer several axle options to optimize towing and fuel
> > economy.
>
> > Ed
>
> Mebbe, but the Toyota will still be driving like a new truck when the GMC is
> on
> its third owner, or in a boneyard.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Why do you think that? Any proof, or just wild speculation.

Ed
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

On Mar 16, 4:54 pm, "Mike Hunter" <mikehu... RemoveThis @mailcity.com> wrote:
> Get real. Ford is the Silverado competition not the Tundra. Ford sells 35%
> of the full-size trucks in the US. Chevy 30% and Toyota a measly 5%. The
> base engine in the Tundra is a only a V6. The F150 has a six speed and a V8
> is standard as well. The Tundra is just beginning to catch up to the build
> quality of what GM, Ford and Dodge have been offering in their truck for
> years
>
> mike

Mike,

Actually Ford and Chevrolet also have standard V-6s in their half ton
pickup trucks. When I was shopping for a pickup last year it was much
easier to find a V-6 F150 than a V-6 Tundra. There was not a single
V-6 Tundra on any of the local lots for me to test drive. V-6 F150
were easy to fiind.

Ed
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

"Ed White" <ce.white3.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174068142.493211.246440@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

>>
>> Mebbe, but the Toyota will still be driving like a new truck when the GMC
>> is
>> on
>> its third owner, or in a boneyard.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Why do you think that? Any proof, or just wild speculation.
>
> Ed
>


Cars can require two general categories of service:

- Normal: Things everyone expects, like tires, oil/filter, fuel filter,
belts, battery, and even things that don't necessarily have a scheduled
replacement time, but which experienced drivers are aware of, like
alternator, pumps.

- Outrageous repairs required because of hideous flaws in design &
manufacturing:

Example - my sister's 1983 Buick, perfectly maintained, driven normally,
transmission has meltdown at 60,000 miles.

Example - my 1992 Taurus. Fusible link located at bottom of engine
compartment, completely unprotected from the elements. Link and its
connectors corroded and turned to crumbs, preventing car from starting.
Since it's common knowledge that electrical connections need to be
thoroughly protected in engine compartments, we can safely conclude that the
car's designer intended for this problem to occur, perhaps as a prank.

Example - Chrysler mini-vans. I can identify them blindfolded, just by the
smell of their exhausts. One year old and they stink like an ancient Blazer.
It's strange, because Chrysler owns some of the same CNC machining equipment
used at Toyota factories. But, they choose to run them sloppy. Don't ask my
source, I won't tell you, but I'm sure you'll dispute it. Enjoy.

Example - another Ford I owned, mid 1970s. Stick shift held onto tranny by a
nylon (plastic) threaded ring. Exhaust located 4 inches from that spot.
Nylon ring softens from heat, threads deteriorate, so one day, I downshift
from 3rd to 2nd and end up holding a shifter that's attached to nothing,
other than being held to the console by the boot. Wait. It gets better: The
dealer claims they've never heard of this before. That didn't work, for
reasons not important here. They fixed it for free. Six months later, same
thing. I decide to fix it myself, since it was summertime and I was curious.
Parts guy says "Oh yeah...we always keep that ring in stock. Lots of
problems." Why didn't the shop want to fix it for free without being
coerced? Because in order to fix it, you had to remove the front seats,
remove all the carpet trim, lift the carpet, so you could finally get to the
screws that held the console in place. Under the console were hidden the
screws that held the shifter boot to the transmission hump. Actual time to
replace the melted ring: two minutes.

You really need to stop mixing religion with your opinions about cars.
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

"Ed White" <ce.white3 RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174068142.493211.246440@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Why do you think that? Any proof, or just wild speculation.
>
> Ed
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is no proof of course, because like anyone else, I cannot foretell the
future, but based on three Toyotas and several GM and Ford products (Thank
God I haven't owned a Chrysler product since 1958!) I'm just hazarding the
guess that The Toys will be around long after the others go bye-bye.
Speculation, but anything but wild. GM in particular makes cars that make
themselves obsolete in a few years. If you really want to see a car
self-destruct, get a Cadillac Catera, (the car that zigs....right into the
wrecking yard.)
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

Those commercials are meant to influence Tacoma and Camry buyers that may
want a full size truck. The fact is the standard pay load of the Tundra is
only 10,000 LB. Real truck buyers know better. The Silverado standard
pay load is 10,500 LB and the F150 is 11,000 LB, both of which cost less
than the Tundra as well.



mike
"C. E. White" <cewhite3.RemoveThis@removemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:45f9b22b$1@kcnews01...
> Borrowed off the Internet....I am just the messenger, although I agree
> that the new Tundra ads are deliberately misleading....
>
> Lou Kaltenstein
> President
> Gene Norris Buick-GMC Trucks Inc./Norris Auto Group
> 18170 Bagley Rd
> Middleburg Hts., Ohio 44130
>
> There has been a lot of talk about Toyota Tundra's new ads and how
> impressive they are. Here are some myths about their spots that I have
> found and that should be refuted. Also, they are offering a "IVC" type
> program on Tundra to help with sales.
>
> I would guess all of you have seen the ad where the Tundra pulls a trailer
> up a steep grade (a 'see-saw'), and then barrels down hill and locks the
> brakes up just before the end of the ramp. Many of you have commented on
> how well done the spot is visually. However, here are the actual facts to
> share with people:
>
> 1. The V.O. at the beginning of the spot says...."It's tough pushing
> 10,000 lbs up a steep grade". Myth: Toyota would like the audience to
> believe the trailer is 10,000 lbs. Fact: It's a 5,000 lb truck pulling a
> 5,000 lb trailer. A little slight of hand? You bet.
>
> 2. Then, on the way down the grade, the camera zooms in on the brakes as
> the vehicles comes to a screeching halt just prior to the end of ramp.
> Next time you see the ad....look for the 'mice type'. It indicates the
> trailer is equipped with electric brakes. Fact....the electric brakes stop
> the trailer -- not the truck. A little slight of hand? You bet.
>
> 3. And why does Toyota have bigger brake pads? They need them....their
> truck is heavier. Stopping distance between our truck and theirs is
> virtually identical. And why does Toyota have a 6 speed transmission? To
> improve their fuel economy....which is still 2 mpg less than ours.
>
> 4. And don't forget....their big V8 has one axle ratio -- a 4.3. Suck fuel
> much? Our trucks offer several axle options to optimize towing and fuel
> economy.
>
> Ed
>
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

Get real. Ford is the Silverado competition not the Tundra. Ford sells 35%
of the full-size trucks in the US. Chevy 30% and Toyota a measly 5%. The
base engine in the Tundra is a only a V6. The F150 has a six speed and a V8
is standard as well. The Tundra is just beginning to catch up to the build
quality of what GM, Ford and Dodge have been offering in their truck for
years


mike


"zonie" <sjemoomaw@nospam> wrote in message
news:c6950a88731728c35f399ae2cf13a86e@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
> Time will tell what the Tundra can do. Sounds like the GM people are
> nervous about somebody coming up with competition. He forgets to mention
> taht also with the 4.3 axle ratio the Tndra has a 6 speed auto which
> probably about equals their higher ratios with the 4 speed auto that they
> have. Scott
>
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

In article <FI-dnSAaZM3XmWbYnZ2dnUVZ_tOmnZ2d RemoveThis @ptd.net>,
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2 RemoveThis @mailcity.com> wrote:

> Get real. Ford is the Silverado competition not the Tundra. Ford sells 35%
> of the full-size trucks in the US. Chevy 30% and Toyota a measly 5%. The
> base engine in the Tundra is a only a V6. The F150 has a six speed and a V8
> is standard as well. The Tundra is just beginning to catch up to the build
> quality of what GM, Ford and Dodge have been offering in their truck for
> years
>
>
> mike
>
>
The base engine in the Silverado is a V6 as well.
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

You are of that opinion because you have a bias for Toyota and do not know
much about trucks it appears. The fact is Toyotas newest truck is just
starting to catch up to the build quality that has been the hallmark of
those made by GM, Ford and Dodge for at least five years or more. When the
commercials refer to what 'use to be' they are referring to what THE Tundra
'use to be.' Everything one sees in the Tundra commercials can be done and
done much better by GM, Ford and Dodge trucks with a heaver load and for a
lot less money.

mike


"Viperkiller" <no.TakeThisOut@no.com> wrote in message
news:bd8kv217kuklq7qld1lqr94ptnm65togue@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:51:09 -0400, "C. E. White"
> <cewhite3.TakeThisOut@removemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Borrowed off the Internet....I am just the messenger, although I agree
>>that the new Tundra ads are deliberately misleading....
>>
>>Lou Kaltenstein
>>President
>>Gene Norris Buick-GMC Trucks Inc./Norris Auto Group
>>18170 Bagley Rd
>>Middleburg Hts., Ohio 44130
>>
>>There has been a lot of talk about Toyota Tundra's new ads and how
>>impressive they are. Here are some myths about their spots that I have
>>found and that should be refuted. Also, they are offering a "IVC" type
>>program on Tundra to help with sales.
>>
>>I would guess all of you have seen the ad where the Tundra pulls a
>>trailer up a steep grade (a 'see-saw'), and then barrels down hill and
>>locks the brakes up just before the end of the ramp. Many of you have
>>commented on how well done the spot is visually. However, here are the
>>actual facts to share with people:
>>
>>1. The V.O. at the beginning of the spot says...."It's tough pushing
>>10,000 lbs up a steep grade". Myth: Toyota would like the audience to
>>believe the trailer is 10,000 lbs. Fact: It's a 5,000 lb truck pulling
>>a 5,000 lb trailer. A little slight of hand? You bet.
>>
>>2. Then, on the way down the grade, the camera zooms in on the brakes
>>as the vehicles comes to a screeching halt just prior to the end of
>>ramp. Next time you see the ad....look for the 'mice type'. It
>>indicates the trailer is equipped with electric brakes. Fact....the
>>electric brakes stop the trailer -- not the truck. A little slight of
>>hand? You bet.
>>
>>3. And why does Toyota have bigger brake pads? They need them....their
>>truck is heavier. Stopping distance between our truck and theirs is
>>virtually identical. And why does Toyota have a 6 speed transmission?
>>To improve their fuel economy....which is still 2 mpg less than ours.
>>
>>4. And don't forget....their big V8 has one axle ratio -- a 4.3. Suck
>>fuel much? Our trucks offer several axle options to optimize towing
>>and fuel economy.
>>
>>Ed
>>

Just because a GM dealer is losing sales and makes
> a claim, doesn't make it so.
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL 

"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2 DeleteThis @mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:4IidnT7D2ptntmbYnZ2dnUVZWhednZ2d@ptd.net...
> You are of that opinion because you have a bias for Toyota and do not know
> much about trucks it appears. The fact is Toyotas newest truck is just
> starting to catch up to the build quality that has been the hallmark of
> those made by GM, Ford and Dodge for at least five years or more. When
> the commercials refer to what 'use to be' they are referring to what THE
> Tundra 'use to be.' Everything one sees in the Tundra commercials can be
> done and done much better by GM, Ford and Dodge trucks with a heaver load
> and for a lot less money.
>
> mike

"build quality" in the same sentence as "GM, Ford and Dodge." LOL. Good
one, "mike," we didn't know you were such a comedian..




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 >> Stay informed about: GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL