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Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!

 
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Bob85

External


Since: Mar 23, 2004
Posts: 113



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:09 pm
Post subject: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!
Archived from groups: alt>autos>hyundai (more info?)

Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil filters
for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several pictures of
it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuine Hyundai
filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The pictures are very nice.
In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and the inner o-rings
(I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from the Hyundai
filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that these materials are
materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I'd want to
know if this was my engine."

Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an oil
change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well until
I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives the car).
This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been leaking from
between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn, and found
it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing was almost
immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping that it wasn't
cracked.

It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened. I've
changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring was
still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring actually is
now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures of the Hyundai
O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. My server is
currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, or suggestions
as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address is valid), and
I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions so everyone
can see.

I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway, and
the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle, and ran
the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil warms, it
quits leaking.

I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
picture how their customer service would react - denial.

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Mike Marlow

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Since: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 669



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:49 am
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Bob" wrote in message


>
> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an
> oil change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well
> until I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives
> the car). This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been
> leaking from between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a
> turn, and found it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter
> housing was almost immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off,
> hoping that it wasn't cracked.

That sucks.


>
> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway,
> and the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle,
> and ran the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil
> warms, it quits leaking.
>
> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
> picture how their customer service would react - denial.
>
>

Why assume that? While it may indeed be true, you have nothing at all to
base that assumption on. Why not provide Fram the evidence you are so
willing to share here, and see exactly *what* they have to say.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE.RemoveThis@alltel.net

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Tom

External


Since: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 143



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:33 am
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I second Mike's motion. You should contact Fram and DOCUMENT the filter
gasket's failure in case you have engine problems. A follow up with a
registered letter would be my second step. Fram is a very reputable
company, despite how they get slammed on this forum, and should welcome the
information about the gasket material. It sounds as if they may have
changed gasket material. Probably, as is so frequent today, they outsourced
the gaskets (maybe the entire filter) to China and got what they paid
for-junk. It happened to me at my work when our closure supplier changed
their gasket source to China and, without their knowledge, the material was
also changed to something cheaper.
China will destroy our economy...................

Tom

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

>
> "Bob" wrote in message
>
>
>>
>> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an
>> oil change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well
>> until I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives
>> the car). This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been
>> leaking from between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a
>> turn, and found it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter
>> housing was almost immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off,
>> hoping that it wasn't cracked.
>
> That sucks.
>
>
>>
>> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
>> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway,
>> and the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle,
>> and ran the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil
>> warms, it quits leaking.
>>
>> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
>> picture how their customer service would react - denial.
>>
>>
>
> Why assume that? While it may indeed be true, you have nothing at all to
> base that assumption on. Why not provide Fram the evidence you are so
> willing to share here, and see exactly *what* they have to say.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> mmarlowREMOVE RemoveThis @alltel.net
>
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Zotto1

External


Since: Nov 06, 2003
Posts: 11



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Bob" ha scritto nel messaggio

> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
> filters for the Sonata.

There is a TSB from Hyundai that talks about this issue, recommending to use
ONLY original oil filters for Sonata 2006 to avoid such a kind of troubles.



--
Zotto Sonica barbonica driver
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zottoida/
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Bob85

External


Since: Mar 23, 2004
Posts: 113



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Zotto" wrote in message

>
> "Bob" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
>> filters for the Sonata.
>
> There is a TSB from Hyundai that talks about this issue, recommending to
> use ONLY original oil filters for Sonata 2006 to avoid such a kind of
> troubles.
>
>
The TSB from Hyundai was generic - Issued 2005 for All Vehicles. It talked
about possible engine noise as a side effect of using aftermarket filters.
Others here discussed it further, and said it was maybe due to
anti-drainback valve issues. The filters for the 3.3 are bare cartridge
filters, not the type in a metal can. They contain no valves.

As far as reporting it to Fram, I've made a call, and left info on their
"Product Quality Claims" voice mail. If they call back, great. I'll let
everyone know what transpires. You would think that they would have tested
the filter / O-rings to make sure that they were the proper material for the
application. There was absolutely no deviation from their instructions -
it's in a car with motor oil, and the filter hasn't been in all that long. I
can tell them exactly what oil was used, so maybe they can duplicate the
problem. I'm not really concerned about this having damaged the engine, as
all it did was cause a leak. The oil level didn't have a chance to get low.
The leak was discovered within a day of it starting.
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Tom

External


Since: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 143



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I read the TSB about engine noise (valve lifters) a while back. Is there
another one? I'll have to check.


"Zotto" wrote in message

>
> "Bob" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
>> filters for the Sonata.
>
> There is a TSB from Hyundai that talks about this issue, recommending to
> use ONLY original oil filters for Sonata 2006 to avoid such a kind of
> troubles.
>
>
>
> --
> Zotto Sonica barbonica driver
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/zottoida/
>
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Mike Marlow

External


Since: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 669



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Bob" wrote in message


>
> As far as reporting it to Fram, I've made a call, and left info on their
> "Product Quality Claims" voice mail. If they call back, great. I'll let
> everyone know what transpires. You would think that they would have tested
> the filter / O-rings to make sure that they were the proper material for
> the application. There was absolutely no deviation from their
> instructions - it's in a car with motor oil, and the filter hasn't been in
> all that long. I can tell them exactly what oil was used, so maybe they
> can duplicate the problem. I'm not really concerned about this having
> damaged the engine, as all it did was cause a leak. The oil level didn't
> have a chance to get low. The leak was discovered within a day of it
> starting.
>

A great many of us here will be interested in hearing how this plays out
Bob. I for one, am not in the Fram bashing camp and I'd like to think
they'll step up to the plate on this. We'll see...

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE.TakeThisOut@alltel.net
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Bob85

External


Since: Mar 23, 2004
Posts: 113



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

>
> "Bob" wrote in message
>
>
>>
>> As far as reporting it to Fram, I've made a call, and left info on their
>> "Product Quality Claims" voice mail. If they call back, great. I'll let
>> everyone know what transpires. You would think that they would have
>> tested the filter / O-rings to make sure that they were the proper
>> material for the application. There was absolutely no deviation from
>> their instructions - it's in a car with motor oil, and the filter hasn't
>> been in all that long. I can tell them exactly what oil was used, so
>> maybe they can duplicate the problem. I'm not really concerned about
>> this having damaged the engine, as all it did was cause a leak. The oil
>> level didn't have a chance to get low. The leak was discovered within a
>> day of it starting.
>>
>
> A great many of us here will be interested in hearing how this plays out
> Bob. I for one, am not in the Fram bashing camp and I'd like to think
> they'll step up to the plate on this. We'll see...
>
> --

Fortunately, there's no damage other than the mess which a 2 dollar can of
degreaser took care of. A neighbor came over and reminded me of the $500
fine for washing cars because of the water restrictions.....

They'll either call me back, and be interested, or they won't. Even if they
want the filter, etc. back, I'm sure they'll never 'fess up to there being a
problem. The filter is still in the car, as I'll probably change the oil
sometime this weekend. I just swapped out the O-ring yesterday. I'll do the
rest when I change the oil. I sent the pics to someone on this group that
emailed for them. If anyone's got a solution for posting them, I'll do that.
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Matt Whiting

External


Since: Apr 14, 2005
Posts: 1105



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Bob wrote:
> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil filters
> for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several pictures of
> it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuine Hyundai
> filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The pictures are very nice.
> In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and the inner o-rings
> (I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from the Hyundai
> filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that these materials are
> materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I'd want to
> know if this was my engine."
>
> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I did an oil
> change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well until
> I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives the car).
> This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been leaking from
> between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn, and found
> it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing was almost
> immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping that it wasn't
> cracked.
>
> It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened. I've
> changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring was
> still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring actually is
> now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures of the Hyundai
> O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. My server is
> currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, or suggestions
> as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address is valid), and
> I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions so everyone
> can see.
>
> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few
> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway, and
> the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle, and ran
> the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil warms, it
> quits leaking.
>
> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can
> picture how their customer service would react - denial.

It is a good idea to let them know. If they are using cheap materials
knowingly, then they won't care and won't do anything as you say.
However, if they have any integrity, they will check to see if their
supplier sent them substandard materials by mistake or maybe on purpose,
but unbeknown to them. If they don't know of these failures, they have
no opportunity to address them.

I personally no longer hold Fram in high regard, but that is just my
opinion. However, I almost always let a company know when their product
is substandard. I figure I at least owe them that much. If they choose
to ignore it, then that is out of my control.

I know we have had long debates here about various manufacturers of oil,
filters, etc. and many disagree with me, however, I still believe that
there often IS a correlation of quality to price. Cheap parts really
are often inferior in one way or another. Are they inferior enough to
matter? That is the $64K question. Maybe Fram filters are good enough
in most cases. Maybe SuperTech oil is good enough in most cases. For
me, I'll pay the extra for Mobil 1 or Castrol and likewise for Hyundai
or Purolator or similar filters.

I'm glad you found the problem before it caused engine damage.


Matt
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Matt Whiting

External


Since: Apr 14, 2005
Posts: 1105



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

']['unez wrote:
> Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter
> who it was aimed at ) that is your opinion and you know what they say
> about opinions !!!!! I have been using Fram Oil Filters in my Vehicles
> and sold them in all 4 of my service stations for 40 YEARS with not one
> complaint or not one problem in 40 years and just so you have another of
> your opinions aired I also used Penzoil Oil all those years untill Mobil
> 1 came out and I switched.... As you know or should know EVERYBODY has
> parts fail, it doesnt matter if its Fram, Autolite, WHOMEVER it does
> happen Just because you may have had a bad experiance with a fram filter
> or read it someplace that doesnt mean you need to condem them for every
> body else .

Fram filters changed a lot over that time period. I used them in the
early days as well and they were very good then. When Fram was acquired
by a different company (forget the details now as it has been many years
ago), the filters were redesigned to cut cost. They went from being a
premium brand to being a bottom-tier brand almost overnight.

Use what you will, but the standard Fram filters today just aren't high
quality as several tear-downs have shown.

Matt
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Bob85

External


Since: Mar 23, 2004
Posts: 113



(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"']['unez" wrote in message

> Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter
> who it was aimed at ) .....

Actually, it was likely aimed at me. We've all heard the urban legends about
the Fram filters that have caused all kinds of problems from sludge to
thrown rods. Most of us have seen the teardowns that are BASED ON VISUAL
INSPECTION. This filter is not in a can, and looked pretty good. That's why
I tried it. The problem here wasn't the filter. The filter still looks fine.
It was the O-ring gasket included with the filter. It would appear that
whatever they made it out of, it didn't do well - heat, oil, cold?
Actually, the small O-ring that's on the end of the bypass valve assembly is
pretty hard also. The two on the filter itself seem OK.

Anyway, I got a call back from Fram today, and they are sending me out some
kind of packaging to send the filter and O-rings back. They claim that they
will report back. It didn't damage my engine. All it did was make a mess.
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southluke

External


Since: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 40



(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

> GUEST wrote:
> Several Months ago, there was some discussion about aftermarket oil
filters
> for the Sonata. I had purchased a Fram PH9999. I took several
pictures of
> it - the filter, O rings, and took similar pictures of the genuine
Hyundai
> filter. Matt Whiting had the following to say: "The pictures
are very nice.
> In the pictures, it appears that both the filter media and the
inner o-rings
> (I think they are o-rings anyway) are a different color from the
Hyundai
> filter. This may be inconsequential or it may mean that these
materials are
> materially (pun intended!) different from the Hyundai filter. I'd
want to
> know if this was my engine."
>
> Well, Matt hit the nail on the head. Around the end of August, I
did an oil
> change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was
well until
> I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives
the car).
> This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been
leaking from
> between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn,
and found
> it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing was
almost
> immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping that
it wasn't
> cracked.
>
> It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had
hardened. I've
> changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring
was
> still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring
actually is
> now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures of
the Hyundai
> O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. My
server is
> currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, or
suggestions
> as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address is
valid), and
> I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions so
everyone
> can see.
>
> I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past
few
> days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the
driveway, and
> the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle,
and ran
> the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil
warms, it
> quits leaking.
>
> I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I
can
> picture how their customer service would react - denial.

The
best oil filter is the one on sale. I think I have used about every
brand made over the years and never had engine problems. The Walmart
brand seems to work fine.

However, I have noticed over the years that every now and then one
will leak a little. Not sure why but it does not seem to be any
particular brand.

Just change the oil and filter regularly and keep an eye on the oil
level and you will be OK.

Luke
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Deck

External


Since: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 161



(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I have always used the Hyundaifilter, but I do have a Fram that looks just
like it! What I have been reading it was the O ring that failed, not the
filter!! I have changed my oil every 5000 miles using the Hyundai filter,
but taking off the O rings is a pain, so I have only done that once.
otherwise I just use the old Orings. Have a bunch left over if you need
one!!!

--
Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.hyundai/
More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
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Tom

External


Since: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 143



(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Well, that in itself says one helluva lot about Fram!!! If they take the
time and effort to send you a special box to return the failed filter in
then they DO care about their products. That's a lot more than I can say
about many other manufacturers that I have dealt with over the years.

"Bob" wrote in message

>
> "']['unez" wrote in message
>
>> Well Brian, If this response was aimed at me ( actually it doesnt matter
>> who it was aimed at ) .....
>
> Actually, it was likely aimed at me. We've all heard the urban legends
> about the Fram filters that have caused all kinds of problems from sludge
> to thrown rods. Most of us have seen the teardowns that are BASED ON
> VISUAL INSPECTION. This filter is not in a can, and looked pretty good.
> That's why I tried it. The problem here wasn't the filter. The filter
> still looks fine. It was the O-ring gasket included with the filter. It
> would appear that whatever they made it out of, it didn't do well - heat,
> oil, cold? Actually, the small O-ring that's on the end of the bypass
> valve assembly is pretty hard also. The two on the filter itself seem OK.
>
> Anyway, I got a call back from Fram today, and they are sending me out
> some kind of packaging to send the filter and O-rings back. They claim
> that they will report back. It didn't damage my engine. All it did was
> make a mess.
>
>
>
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Matt Whiting

External


Since: Apr 14, 2005
Posts: 1105



(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Deck wrote:
> I have always used the Hyundaifilter, but I do have a Fram that looks just
> like it! What I have been reading it was the O ring that failed, not the
> filter!! I have changed my oil every 5000 miles using the Hyundai filter,
> but taking off the O rings is a pain, so I have only done that once.
> otherwise I just use the old Orings. Have a bunch left over if you need
> one!!!

Yes, but if the Fram o-ring is really inferior why do you suspect any
different about the filter itself?

Matt
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