Ford F series loses title as top-selling vehicle in May

"Valued Corporate #120,345 Employee (B A R R Y)"
<DwightSchrute DeleteThis @DunderMifflin.com> wrote in message
news:jm0e44hfmbkoaobsodbqob1pupprkbonk2@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 11:09:43 -0400, "C. E. White"
> <cewhite3 DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>While the Hilux has also grown, it is still not as large as the US
>>Tacoma.....2.4 inches narrower, 1.2 in shorter, etc. The Hilux specs are
>>from the UK web site
>>(http://www.toyota.co.uk/bv/CV/downloads/Hilux_specification.pdf ). I wish
>>they would offer the 3.0l diesel in the US.
>>
>>Hilux (4 door cab)
>>
>>Width 1835 mm = 72.2 in
>>Lenght 5255 mm = 206.9 in
>>Track 1540/1540 mm fr/rr =60.6 in
>>Wheelbase 3085 mm =121.5
>>
>>Tacoma (4 door cab)
>>
>>Width 74.6 in
>>Lenght 208.1 in
>>Track 63.0/63.4 fr/rr
>>Wheelbase 127.8 in
>
> Are you joking or trying to look like a maroon?
>
> That "smaller" Hilux is still 4100+ pounds, just like the North
> American Tacoma. I sat in one in Iceland.
>
> 2.4 inches narrower and 1.2 inches shorter? <G> Those are slightly
> different body contours. The width is probably the plastic over
> fenders that snap on.
>
> I gotta' say it again... _1.2 INCHES_ SHORTER??? =8^)

The length for a truck is pretty much dictated by the smallest cab that
people can fit in and the length of the bed. The track of the Hilux is
almost 3 inches less and the wheelbase is over 6 inches less. None of those
is related to the plastic fender flares Toyota tacks on to the Tacoma in the
US. In my prior note, I only compared the dimensions for similar 4 door
models with the short bed. I would expect the length to be similar for these
vehicles. UK men are not substantially smaller than US men, and the bed
lengths are the same. The shortest US Tacoma (4x2, reg cab) is 190.4 inches
long. The shortest UK Hilux is actually longer, but then they don't offer a
short bed on the reg cab in the UK.

The curb weight of the European Hilux trucks range from 3604 lb for a base
regular cab 4x2 to 4177 lb for the double cab 4x4. All the UK spec Hilux
trucks include diesel engines, which I suspect are considerably heavier than
US spec gasoline engines. The US spec Tacomas are actually considerably
lighter than the Hilux. The regular cab 4x2 has a curb weight of only 3200
lb. The Tacoma 4x4 double cab with the long bed (which is not available in
the UK) is close to the European Hilux with a curb weight of 4155 (despite
the lighter engine and much longer bed and the much longer length - 221 in,
14 inches longer than the longest UK Hilux). The US spec Tacoma also has a
lower payload capacity, only 1495 lb compared to over 2300 lb for the UK
spec Hilux.

I guess the net is, although I like the US Tacoma, it is unnecessarily
larger and can carry less than the Hilux trucks available elsewhere. I
suspect it also rides better, has a nicer interior, and is much quieter. For
use on my farm, I'd love to have the 2300 lb payload capacity. I've actually
had more than that on my Frontier (46 50 lb bags of seed, plus me, plus
tools - probably a total payload over 2700 lbs) but I would not want to
drive far like that. It seems to me with a 2300 lb rated payload capacity,
I'd be able to get 3200 on the truck or more...

Ed
 >> Stay informed about: Ford F series loses title as top-selling vehicle in May 

On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:37:00 -0400, "C. E. White"
<cewhite3 RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote:


Have you sat in both trucks?

I have.

So, feel free to write paragraph after paragraph of "yabut".
 >> Stay informed about: Ford F series loses title as top-selling vehicle in May 

"Valued Corporate #120,345 Employee (B A R R Y)"
<DwightSchrute DeleteThis @DunderMifflin.com> wrote in message
news:vrfg44pjgakmuebk436da1elginukj52ls@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 13:37:00 -0400, "C. E. White"
> <cewhite3 DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
> Have you sat in both trucks?

And what does that prove? You seems to ty to claim that the Hilux sold in
Eurpoe and the Tacoma are the same truck under the skin, when clearly they
are not. You seem to dismiss difference in width, track, wheelbase, and
payload as trival, yet they are real. I agree that the current European
Hilux is much larger than prior models, but it is still not as large as the
current US spec Tacoma. Interestingly, in Australia, they sell yet a
different size Hilux:

Lenght: 4975, 5130, 5255 mm = 196", 202", 207" (similar to a Tacoma, but we
discussed why that would be the case already)
Width: 1760 mm = 69.7" (almost 5" narower than a Tacoma)
Track Frt/Rr: 1510 mm = 59.5" (almost 4" narrower than a Tacoma)
Wheelbase: 3085 mm = 121.5" (around 6" sharter than a Tacoma)

Is this a significant difference?

And in Austraila, they get the gas V6 and I4 and the 3.0L Diesel. I am
jealous.

>
> I have.
>
> So, feel free to write paragraph after paragraph of "yabut".

No, I have not sat in a European Spec Hilux (unless you mean the "good old
small ones"). Have you sat in an Asian spec Hilux? I have sat in a Tacoma
(my SO's father ownes an Access Cab and I test drove one before I bought the
Frontier). Specs are specs. Despite your assertions, the specs indicate that
the European Hilux is both smaller and more capable than the US Tacoma - at
least if you actully need a truck instead of a reduced function car. This
is my major gripe about half ton trucks inthe US. They have gone from being
work trucks to some sort of jacked up faux car thing. Ford has been as
guilty of this as anyone. In seems that each new F150 model is a less
attractive work truck than the previous model (at least since the mid 90's).
The current Tundra is even worse than the current F150, at least if you want
a work truck. I suppose if you want a hulking pig to impress your neighbors,
it is as good a paper weight as anybody else's POS but as far as I am
concerned it was a huge mistake (as is the current F150, and probably the
future F150 as well).
 >> Stay informed about: Ford F series loses title as top-selling vehicle in May 

Tundra rebates are $7,000 in some markers. Go to any Manheim Auction and
you can find all the brand new 2008 Tundra's you want, as low as 25K for FWD
models. Toyota is even dumping them on the rental car market without the
standard reservation requirement to keep them in service for at least six
months. The same is true of Solara's, Hertz is loaded with them

"C. E. White" <cewhite3 RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:buydnfN_e8i-NtvVnZ2dnUVZ_rPinZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
> "Don't Taze Me, Bro!" <One187 RemoveThis @NoWhere.Com> wrote in message
> news:3al1k.13764$qP.12141@trnddc03...
>>
>> "C. E. White" <cewhite3 RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:QLOdnZx7co_qIdjVnZ2dnUVZ_ozinZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>> Tundra incentives - up to $4500 and 0% interest
>>> F150 incentives - up to $3500 or 0% interest
>>
>> Really? That's sad that Ford has to reach that far in a market that they
>> have had a good grasp on.
>
> The 150 is the oldest design truck on the market, so I suspect Ford is
> pleased they have been able to hold on to the #1 spot in gthe truck
> market.
>
>>>> The Tundra has done just fine in a market not intended for foreign
>>>> companies.
>>>
>>> LOL...it has been an unmitigated disaster.
>>
>> Yet has made a profit for a company and created American jobs. The Tundra
>> has gained 17 % of the truck market in a market it is not intended to
>> gain in.
>
> Toyota has wasted billions trying to buy market share. They should have
> spent more time on the design and less time on misleading commercials. I
> doubt there has been a net increase in American jobs. Ask the people who
> used to work at the Ford truck plant in Norfolk if they think there was an
> increase in the number of people building half ton trucks. Shifting jobs
> to Texas is not the same as creating jobs. And since Toyota pays less and
> hires many temps, it is likely the net effect on the US economy will be
> negative.
>
>>> Turdra commercial runs almost continuosuly around here, they have more
>>> incentives on them than any other truck
>>
>> Ford and Chevy and Toyota Truck commercials run continuously here in
>> Dallas. Whats your point?
>
> Here in NC I see more Tundra commercial than Ford and Chevy truck
> commercials combined. And Toyota is practically ignoring its better truck
> (the Tacoma) in ads. They are trying to make up for designing a loser
> truck with advertising and incentives. The money would have been better
> spent elsewhere.
>
>>>> Which is why Toyota has not put as much investment into trucks. Yet
>>>> they still managed to gain some money in the market.
>>>
>>> What planet to you live on? Billion of dollars down the drain. The
>>> biggest thing they did was drive Nissan out of the full size truck
>>> market.
>>
>> Selling 130 thousand Tundra's a year is burning money?
>
> When you annoucne a understated sales target of 200,000 a year, build
> capactiy to build twice that many, and then miss even the understated
> target by 35%, yes that is burning money. Bad plannning, bad truck, wasted
> money. The old Tundra was actually a better product. They only need to fix
> the piston slap probems and improve the cab room and they would have had a
> truck that was jsut about right for the half ton market. Instead they took
> all the worst ideas from Ford, Chevy, and Dodge and rolled them up into an
> oversized gas sucking pig.
>
> It is sad that they built such a stupid truck.
>
> Ed
>
 >> Stay informed about: Ford F series loses title as top-selling vehicle in May 

"Mike hunt" <mikehunt22.RemoveThis@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:U8KdnXKhR85RLdjVnZ2dnUVZ_q_inZ2d@ptd.net...
> The 1991 date is for sales during ONE month back then when Toyota sold
> more as well. By the end of the model year is was a far different
> number. Ford has had the number one spot in ANNUAL sales, the one that
> counts, for thirty one years, since 1976

1978, not 1976.

Ed
 >> Stay informed about: Ford F series loses title as top-selling vehicle in May 

Ed White wrote:
> "Mike hunt" <mikehunt22 RemoveThis @lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:U8KdnXKhR85RLdjVnZ2dnUVZ_q_inZ2d@ptd.net...
>> The 1991 date is for sales during ONE month back then when Toyota sold
>> more as well. By the end of the model year is was a far different
>> number. Ford has had the number one spot in ANNUAL sales, the one that
>> counts, for thirty one years, since 1976
>
> 1978, not 1976.
>
> Ed

And it was Dec. 1992, not 1991, too (second to last time the f150 was
outsold by a car).
 >> Stay informed about: Ford F series loses title as top-selling vehicle in May 

As of the 2007 model year, Ford has had the number one selling individual
model for the model YEAR since 1976 a total of 31 consecutive years.

Ford may indeed be out sold buy the end of the 2008 model year but it really
does not matter who sells more in a particular month, it is the total at the
end of the model year. Suggesting one month in significant is like saying
a team won the ball game because they out scored the other team in the first
quarter of the came. The car sales sited included '08 as well as '09 models
not onely '08 models, as is the case for the 'F' Series

May, for instance, is not one of the months when buyers of large number of
trucks purchase their vehicles. Typically they buy early in the first six
months of sales not the last. Those that buy vehicles late in the season
are one time buyers who believe they can save money at the end of the model
year.



"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PQ%2k.2239$1x.2078@trndny06...
> Ed White wrote:
>> "Mike hunt" <mikehunt22 DeleteThis @lycos.com> wrote in message
>> news:U8KdnXKhR85RLdjVnZ2dnUVZ_q_inZ2d@ptd.net...
>>> The 1991 date is for sales during ONE month back then when Toyota sold
>>> more as well. By the end of the model year is was a far different
>>> number. Ford has had the number one spot in ANNUAL sales, the one that
>>> counts, for thirty one years, since 1976
>>
>> 1978, not 1976.
>>
>> Ed
>
> And it was Dec. 1992, not 1991, too (second to last time the f150 was
> outsold by a car).
 >> Stay informed about: Ford F series loses title as top-selling vehicle in May