Ford 351C Cleveland engines - key facts & information

1971 saw the introduction of the 400 CID (6.6L) Cleveland with a 1" taller
deck height and bore and stroke of 4.00", making it the longest stroke used
in a production engine at that time. Widely used in cars and trucks it was
available in 2V and 4V versions before being discontinued in 1982.

When the 351C was retired from service in 1974 Ford introduced what was to
become known as the 351M which was a hybrid using the 400 CID taller block
with the crankshaft from the 351W. It was itself discontinued in 1979.

Australia's contribution was the locally manufactured 302 version of the
Cleveland based on the 351C block with a 3.00" stroke complete with locally
designed small chamber heads. That it produced the same power as the early
US 351 2V engines with only marginally less torque is a credit to the
engineering work done. The engine was discontinued in 1984.
quoted from
http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbportal/modules.php?name=Content&file=vi...rticle&

"disston" wrote in message

>> I always loved the idea of getting a 351c motor for a Mustang project.
>
> Right away you are talking about converting a Windsor car to a
> Cleveland. If you have an old Mustang it would prolly be best to stick
> with what it was built with. Just get a bigger Windsor. If your Stang
> allready has a Cleveland motor then you are set. I don't remember all
> that has to be changed but try exhaust, engine crossover, mounts,
> transmission, radiator. I never did this job but Melvin the everyday
> mechanic at an outdoor lot I used to use would complain for days about
> having to do this.
>
>
> I was
>> wondering however did they ever make a roller motor 351c?
>
> Don't know but if they did it is rare. By roller motor do you mean
> needle bearing rocker? They might be availible. Plenty of info on the
> web if you are serious.
>
>>Also what years
>> would be best to look into? Wasn't the 1971 351c modified to be a Boss
>> 351?
>
> I think when Ford "modifies" an engine it is a different ball game
> than when any of us "modify" anything.
>
>> How did they differ from the 400c? What aftermarket is there for these
>> motors? I noticed Australlia has a better market then the USA for the
>> Clevelands, can you recommend vendors in either country? Anything
>> particular
>> you might recommend aftermarket? What does it respond best too? Such as
>> the
>> aluminum heads? Thanks.
>>
>> Nick- Hide quoted text -
>
> Cleveland motors are really neat. A lot of them got used for years by
> the drag racers. May still be using them.
> If you want one look for a Merc XR7 or some LTD's. Mine was in a '74
> LTD II and prolly rare because there were supposed to not be any after
> '72.
>
> If you have the money you can build anything, fix anything.
>
> disston
> World Famous Bench Racer, retired
 >> Stay informed about: Ford 351C Cleveland engines - key facts & information 

"CobraJet" wrote in message

> In article
> ,
> disston wrote:
>
>> > I always loved the idea of getting a 351c motor for a Mustang project.
>>
>> Right away you are talking about converting a Windsor car to a
>> Cleveland. If you have an old Mustang it would prolly be best to stick
>> with what it was built with. Just get a bigger Windsor. If your Stang
>> allready has a Cleveland motor then you are set. I don't remember all
>> that has to be changed but try exhaust, engine crossover, mounts,
>> transmission, radiator. I never did this job but Melvin the everyday
>> mechanic at an outdoor lot I used to use would complain for days about
>> having to do this.
>
> I just covered this in my previous post. The exhaust is the only
> expense. Mounts and trannies are the same. Radiators: Cleveland cars
> have the water inlet on the pump on the driver's side. So do 70-up
> Windsor cars. If the Windsor being transplanted has a '69-only
> passenger-inlet pump, then you just swap the later pump onto it.
>
> If Melvin made a big deal about this, then he was stroking you for
> compliments and/or sympathy.
>
>>
>>
>> I was
>> > wondering however did they ever make a roller motor 351c?
>>
>> Don't know but if they did it is rare. By roller motor do you mean
>> needle bearing rocker? They might be availible. Plenty of info on the
>> web if you are serious.
>
> C'mon. Roller motors didn't arrive until the 80's. The last Cleve
> was made in '74.
>
>>
>> >Also what years
>> > would be best to look into? Wasn't the 1971 351c modified to be a Boss
>> > 351?
>
> *A* version of the 4V was the Boss 351, yes. Only available in Boss
> 351 model Mustangs. Good luck finding one. Which Cleve you should look
> for depends on your goal for the car.
>
>>
>> I think when Ford "modifies" an engine it is a different ball game
>> than when any of us "modify" anything.
>
> Huh?
>>
>> > How did they differ from the 400c? What aftermarket is there for these
>> > motors? I noticed Australlia has a better market then the USA for the
>> > Clevelands, can you recommend vendors in either country? Anything
>> > particular
>> > you might recommend aftermarket? What does it respond best too? Such as
>> > the
>> > aluminum heads? Thanks.
>
> The best info for the Cleveland is found here:
>
> http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/
>
>> >
>> > Nick- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> Cleveland motors are really neat. A lot of them got used for years by
>> the drag racers. May still be using them.
>> If you want one look for a Merc XR7 or some LTD's. Mine was in a '74
>> LTD II and prolly rare because there were supposed to not be any after
>> '72.
>
> Not rare. In common production until the end of the '74 model year.
>
>>
>> If you have the money you can build anything, fix anything.
>
> You ARE a Philosophy Major!
>
>>
>> disston
>> World Famous Bench Racer, retired
>
> You need a new bench to keep up.
>
> --
> CobraJet


have a look at Cylinder Head Innovations (CHI) for alloy cleveland heads in
Australia, plenty to choose from http://www.chiheads.com/index.php
 >> Stay informed about: Ford 351C Cleveland engines - key facts & information 

In article , Danny Leighton
wrote:

> "CobraJet" wrote in message
>
> > In article
> > ,
> > disston wrote:
> >
> >> > I always loved the idea of getting a 351c motor for a Mustang project.
> >>
> >> Right away you are talking about converting a Windsor car to a
> >> Cleveland. If you have an old Mustang it would prolly be best to stick
> >> with what it was built with. Just get a bigger Windsor. If your Stang
> >> allready has a Cleveland motor then you are set. I don't remember all
> >> that has to be changed but try exhaust, engine crossover, mounts,
> >> transmission, radiator. I never did this job but Melvin the everyday
> >> mechanic at an outdoor lot I used to use would complain for days about
> >> having to do this.
> >
> > I just covered this in my previous post. The exhaust is the only
> > expense. Mounts and trannies are the same. Radiators: Cleveland cars
> > have the water inlet on the pump on the driver's side. So do 70-up
> > Windsor cars. If the Windsor being transplanted has a '69-only
> > passenger-inlet pump, then you just swap the later pump onto it.
> >
> > If Melvin made a big deal about this, then he was stroking you for
> > compliments and/or sympathy.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I was
> >> > wondering however did they ever make a roller motor 351c?
> >>
> >> Don't know but if they did it is rare. By roller motor do you mean
> >> needle bearing rocker? They might be availible. Plenty of info on the
> >> web if you are serious.
> >
> > C'mon. Roller motors didn't arrive until the 80's. The last Cleve
> > was made in '74.
> >
> >>
> >> >Also what years
> >> > would be best to look into? Wasn't the 1971 351c modified to be a Boss
> >> > 351?
> >
> > *A* version of the 4V was the Boss 351, yes. Only available in Boss
> > 351 model Mustangs. Good luck finding one. Which Cleve you should look
> > for depends on your goal for the car.
> >
> >>
> >> I think when Ford "modifies" an engine it is a different ball game
> >> than when any of us "modify" anything.
> >
> > Huh?
> >>
> >> > How did they differ from the 400c? What aftermarket is there for these
> >> > motors? I noticed Australlia has a better market then the USA for the
> >> > Clevelands, can you recommend vendors in either country? Anything
> >> > particular
> >> > you might recommend aftermarket? What does it respond best too? Such as
> >> > the
> >> > aluminum heads? Thanks.
> >
> > The best info for the Cleveland is found here:
> >
> > http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/
> >
> >> >
> >> > Nick- Hide quoted text -
> >>
> >> Cleveland motors are really neat. A lot of them got used for years by
> >> the drag racers. May still be using them.
> >> If you want one look for a Merc XR7 or some LTD's. Mine was in a '74
> >> LTD II and prolly rare because there were supposed to not be any after
> >> '72.
> >
> > Not rare. In common production until the end of the '74 model year.
> >
> >>
> >> If you have the money you can build anything, fix anything.
> >
> > You ARE a Philosophy Major!
> >
> >>
> >> disston
> >> World Famous Bench Racer, retired
> >
> > You need a new bench to keep up.
> >
> > --
> > CobraJet
>
>
> have a look at Cylinder Head Innovations (CHI) for alloy cleveland heads in
> Australia, plenty to choose from http://www.chiheads.com/index.php
>
>

CHI has a great reputation. However, those U.S. enthusiasts who
might be interested in a more modern, efficient alternative for the
iron Aussie head should wait for the impending release of Trick Flow's
new small-port casting.

--
CobraJet
 >> Stay informed about: Ford 351C Cleveland engines - key facts & information 

In article , Danny
Leighton wrote:

> "Thomas Tornblom" wrote in message
>
> > "Danny Leighton" writes:
> >
> >> im reading these posts from Australia. I thought i would let you know a
> >> little bit about the clevland Block. Ford Australia took all the castings
> >> of
> >> the clevland from the states in about 73 and used them up to 1984 when
> >> they
> >> decided Austrlia no longer needed a V8. fortunatly they came to there
> >> senses
> >> 9 years later and started to import the windsor again. (only in 302
> >> though).
> >> Having being around for another ten years or so there a lot of after
> >> market
> >> parts avaliable here including fantastic alloy heads etc.
> >
> > There was also this Australia specific 302C (yes 302 Cleveland). It
> > was a destroked 351C. It had a different crank and longer rods. It is
> > also the source of the much sought after closed chamber 2V heads,
> > which has the good ports of the 2V heads and the good quench chambers
> > of the early 4V heads.
> >
> > I have a set of these heads on my Pantera, which incidently came with
> > an Australian 2V 351C from the factory.
>
> yes that is true,but unfortunatly using the 302 heads in either 4v or 2v
> would increase compression to much for the fuels avalible at the standard
> pump. the 4v heads used on the falcon Gt's of the time were the most sought
> after here. here is a fact that you may not know, the Australian 1971 Ford
> Falcon GTHO with 351 cleveland and 4v heads was the fastest 4 door sedan in
> the world, at that time.
>
>

Here is a fact *you* may not know. In 1971, the 429 Cobra Jet and
429 Super Cobra Jet engines were optional on both the 4-door Torino
station wagon and the 4-door Torino sedan. Neither could be had with
Ram Air or manual transmission. Mercury had no such option on its
Montego 4-doors that I can find at this time.

Apples and oranges, of course, as the GTHO was a recognized submodel
with an illustrious racing heritage, whereas any example of the 429
cars would be very few and far between. Still, sedan vs. sedan would
make for an interesting race.

--
CobraJet
 >> Stay informed about: Ford 351C Cleveland engines - key facts & information 

Is TrickFlow releasing heads for the 351C, or are they windsor heads
that can be adapted to the 351C?

Perhaps they will finally release a lower intake for the 351C as well?

I adapted a 351W TrickFlow intake to my 351C, which involved about a
week of tig welding. Later a guy in the US did the same thing, and he
had apparently contacted TrickFlow suggesting that they develop one. I
contacted them about this and they said they had no such plans.

http://www.detomaso.nu/~thomast/efi/intake6.jpeg

There is actually a renaissance for the Cleveland. Edelbrock has
fairly new alloy heads, there are new blocks soon to be released, both
iron and alloy.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1179950031/Casting+shaken+out
http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1220918967/New+Tod+Block+Pix!++*dial-up+warning*
http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1211901675/First+iron+block+cast
 >> Stay informed about: Ford 351C Cleveland engines - key facts & information 

"CobraJet" wrote in message

> In article , Danny
> Leighton wrote:
>
>> "Thomas Tornblom" wrote in message
>>
>> > "Danny Leighton" writes:
>> >
>> >> im reading these posts from Australia. I thought i would let you know
>> >> a
>> >> little bit about the clevland Block. Ford Australia took all the
>> >> castings
>> >> of
>> >> the clevland from the states in about 73 and used them up to 1984 when
>> >> they
>> >> decided Austrlia no longer needed a V8. fortunatly they came to there
>> >> senses
>> >> 9 years later and started to import the windsor again. (only in 302
>> >> though).
>> >> Having being around for another ten years or so there a lot of after
>> >> market
>> >> parts avaliable here including fantastic alloy heads etc.
>> >
>> > There was also this Australia specific 302C (yes 302 Cleveland). It
>> > was a destroked 351C. It had a different crank and longer rods. It is
>> > also the source of the much sought after closed chamber 2V heads,
>> > which has the good ports of the 2V heads and the good quench chambers
>> > of the early 4V heads.
>> >
>> > I have a set of these heads on my Pantera, which incidently came with
>> > an Australian 2V 351C from the factory.
>>
>> yes that is true,but unfortunatly using the 302 heads in either 4v or 2v
>> would increase compression to much for the fuels avalible at the standard
>> pump. the 4v heads used on the falcon Gt's of the time were the most
>> sought
>> after here. here is a fact that you may not know, the Australian 1971
>> Ford
>> Falcon GTHO with 351 cleveland and 4v heads was the fastest 4 door sedan
>> in
>> the world, at that time.
>>
>>
>
> Here is a fact *you* may not know. In 1971, the 429 Cobra Jet and
> 429 Super Cobra Jet engines were optional on both the 4-door Torino
> station wagon and the 4-door Torino sedan. Neither could be had with
> Ram Air or manual transmission. Mercury had no such option on its
> Montego 4-doors that I can find at this time.
>
> Apples and oranges, of course, as the GTHO was a recognized submodel
> with an illustrious racing heritage, whereas any example of the 429
> cars would be very few and far between. Still, sedan vs. sedan would
> make for an interesting race.
>
> --
> CobraJet
thank you, something to take to the pub for sure. no doubt that if the above
vehicles were built for racing they would certainly have proven to be faster
car. Im not dissing any vehicle built in the US, i was just proving to you
the ability of a cleveland 351. what a race it could have been.
 >> Stay informed about: Ford 351C Cleveland engines - key facts & information 

In article , Danny
Leighton wrote:

> "CobraJet" wrote in message
>
> > In article , Danny
> > Leighton wrote:
> >
> >> "Thomas Tornblom" wrote in message
> >>
> >> > "Danny Leighton" writes:
> >> >
> >> >> im reading these posts from Australia. I thought i would let you know
> >> >> a
> >> >> little bit about the clevland Block. Ford Australia took all the
> >> >> castings
> >> >> of
> >> >> the clevland from the states in about 73 and used them up to 1984 when
> >> >> they
> >> >> decided Austrlia no longer needed a V8. fortunatly they came to there
> >> >> senses
> >> >> 9 years later and started to import the windsor again. (only in 302
> >> >> though).
> >> >> Having being around for another ten years or so there a lot of after
> >> >> market
> >> >> parts avaliable here including fantastic alloy heads etc.
> >> >
> >> > There was also this Australia specific 302C (yes 302 Cleveland). It
> >> > was a destroked 351C. It had a different crank and longer rods. It is
> >> > also the source of the much sought after closed chamber 2V heads,
> >> > which has the good ports of the 2V heads and the good quench chambers
> >> > of the early 4V heads.
> >> >
> >> > I have a set of these heads on my Pantera, which incidently came with
> >> > an Australian 2V 351C from the factory.
> >>
> >> yes that is true,but unfortunatly using the 302 heads in either 4v or 2v
> >> would increase compression to much for the fuels avalible at the standard
> >> pump. the 4v heads used on the falcon Gt's of the time were the most
> >> sought
> >> after here. here is a fact that you may not know, the Australian 1971
> >> Ford
> >> Falcon GTHO with 351 cleveland and 4v heads was the fastest 4 door sedan
> >> in
> >> the world, at that time.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Here is a fact *you* may not know. In 1971, the 429 Cobra Jet and
> > 429 Super Cobra Jet engines were optional on both the 4-door Torino
> > station wagon and the 4-door Torino sedan. Neither could be had with
> > Ram Air or manual transmission. Mercury had no such option on its
> > Montego 4-doors that I can find at this time.
> >
> > Apples and oranges, of course, as the GTHO was a recognized submodel
> > with an illustrious racing heritage, whereas any example of the 429
> > cars would be very few and far between. Still, sedan vs. sedan would
> > make for an interesting race.
> >
> > --
> > CobraJet
> thank you, something to take to the pub for sure. no doubt that if the above
> vehicles were built for racing they would certainly have proven to be faster
> car. Im not dissing any vehicle built in the US, i was just proving to you
> the ability of a cleveland 351. what a race it could have been.
>
>

See the group in the headers with "big-block" in it? The Cleveland
was included as a discussion topic when that newsgroup was formed ten
years ago, and the role of that engine and the Aussie Falcons was
featured often over the years. It was in the charter, and technically
is still on-topic in this group. The network 54 forum that you brought
up in your other post is run by another charter member of the big block
group. What is known of the new TFS heads is in a thread in there.

Of course, the 429 cars would not have been built for road racing.
When you say "fast" over here, in reference to older cars, it usually
means top speed in a straight line. Buying a 4-door in America with a
legit performance engine during the musclecar era would have served
only to be a sneaky bastard at the street races. Or, they would have
been cop cars.

I do have a sneaky bastard 4-door. Not a Ford, though.

--
CobraJet
 >> Stay informed about: Ford 351C Cleveland engines - key facts & information 

In article , CobraJet
wrote:

> In article , Danny
> Leighton wrote:
>
> > "CobraJet" wrote in message
> >
> > > In article , Danny
> > > Leighton wrote:
> > >
> > >> "Thomas Tornblom" wrote in message
> > >>
> > >> > "Danny Leighton" writes:
> > >> >
> > >> >> im reading these posts from Australia. I thought i would let you know
> > >> >> a
> > >> >> little bit about the clevland Block. Ford Australia took all the
> > >> >> castings
> > >> >> of
> > >> >> the clevland from the states in about 73 and used them up to 1984 when
> > >> >> they
> > >> >> decided Austrlia no longer needed a V8. fortunatly they came to there
> > >> >> senses
> > >> >> 9 years later and started to import the windsor again. (only in 302
> > >> >> though).
> > >> >> Having being around for another ten years or so there a lot of after
> > >> >> market
> > >> >> parts avaliable here including fantastic alloy heads etc.
> > >> >
> > >> > There was also this Australia specific 302C (yes 302 Cleveland). It
> > >> > was a destroked 351C. It had a different crank and longer rods. It is
> > >> > also the source of the much sought after closed chamber 2V heads,
> > >> > which has the good ports of the 2V heads and the good quench chambers
> > >> > of the early 4V heads.
> > >> >
> > >> > I have a set of these heads on my Pantera, which incidently came with
> > >> > an Australian 2V 351C from the factory.
> > >>
> > >> yes that is true,but unfortunatly using the 302 heads in either 4v or 2v
> > >> would increase compression to much for the fuels avalible at the standard
> > >> pump. the 4v heads used on the falcon Gt's of the time were the most
> > >> sought
> > >> after here. here is a fact that you may not know, the Australian 1971
> > >> Ford
> > >> Falcon GTHO with 351 cleveland and 4v heads was the fastest 4 door sedan
> > >> in
> > >> the world, at that time.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > Here is a fact *you* may not know. In 1971, the 429 Cobra Jet and
> > > 429 Super Cobra Jet engines were optional on both the 4-door Torino
> > > station wagon and the 4-door Torino sedan. Neither could be had with
> > > Ram Air or manual transmission. Mercury had no such option on its
> > > Montego 4-doors that I can find at this time.
> > >
> > > Apples and oranges, of course, as the GTHO was a recognized submodel
> > > with an illustrious racing heritage, whereas any example of the 429
> > > cars would be very few and far between. Still, sedan vs. sedan would
> > > make for an interesting race.
> > >
> > > --
> > > CobraJet
> > thank you, something to take to the pub for sure. no doubt that if the
> > above
> > vehicles were built for racing they would certainly have proven to be
> > faster
> > car. Im not dissing any vehicle built in the US, i was just proving to you
> > the ability of a cleveland 351. what a race it could have been.
> >
> >
>
> See the group in the headers with "big-block" in it? The Cleveland
> was included as a discussion topic when that newsgroup was formed ten
> years ago, and the role of that engine and the Aussie Falcons was
> featured often over the years. It was in the charter, and technically
> is still on-topic in this group. The network 54 forum that you brought
> up in your other post is run by another charter member of the big block
> group. What is known of the new TFS heads is in a thread in there.
>
> Of course, the 429 cars would not have been built for road racing.
> When you say "fast" over here, in reference to older cars, it usually
> means top speed in a straight line. Buying a 4-door in America with a
> legit performance engine during the musclecar era would have served
> only to be a sneaky bastard at the street races. Or, they would have
> been cop cars.
>
> I do have a sneaky bastard 4-door. Not a Ford, though.

My mistake, attributing the TFS/net54 post to you instead of Mr.
Tornblom. So sorry.

--
CobraJet
 >> Stay informed about: Ford 351C Cleveland engines - key facts & information 

In article , Thomas Tornblom
wrote:

> Is TrickFlow releasing heads for the 351C, or are they windsor heads
> that can be adapted to the 351C?

They are Cleveland heads.
>
> Perhaps they will finally release a lower intake for the 351C as well?

I have no inkling. As they are not doubt meant to be subbed for the
current Aussie 2V iron, I imagine the new Edelbrock 2V Air Gap would be
a well-matched carb intake for street use.

>
> I adapted a 351W TrickFlow intake to my 351C, which involved about a
> week of tig welding. Later a guy in the US did the same thing, and he
> had apparently contacted TrickFlow suggesting that they develop one. I
> contacted them about this and they said they had no such plans.
>
> http://www.detomaso.nu/~thomast/efi/intake6.jpeg

I think most of the guys seeking efi would use throttle bodies on a
carbed intake. Not my cup of tea, though. Nice work on yours.

>
> There is actually a renaissance for the Cleveland. Edelbrock has
> fairly new alloy heads, there are new blocks soon to be released, both
> iron and alloy.
>
> http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1179950031/Casting+shaken+out
>
> http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1220918967/New+Tod+Block+Pix!++*d
> ial-up+warning*
> http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1211901675/First+iron+block+cast

Yes, I am very familiar with that forum. You must have missed the
TFS thread there:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1226158365/Trick+Flow+Cleve
land+heads

--
CobraJet
 >> Stay informed about: Ford 351C Cleveland engines - key facts & information 

CobraJet writes:

> In article , Thomas Tornblom
> wrote:
>
> Yes, I am very familiar with that forum. You must have missed the
> TFS thread there:
>
> http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1226158365/Trick+Flow+Cleve
> land+heads

Cool!

I must confess that I only sporadically check into the forum. The days
has only so many hours. I see someone wanted a TFS lower also


>
> --
> CobraJet

Thomas
 >> Stay informed about: Ford 351C Cleveland engines - key facts & information 

On Nov 23, 9:20 am, DC wrote:
> "The term '351 Cleveland' refers to a unique series of 351
> cubic inch passenger car production engines built using
> advanced engine block and cylinder head castings first
> produced at Ford's Cleveland, Ohio plant. The term
> 'Cleveland' is appended to the engine displacement in order
> to distinguish the 351C from Ford's 351 'Windsor', an
> entirely different engine..."
>
> Continued:http://snipr.com/351Cengines



I really like the Cleveland and run a 400M 2bbl in my 1982 F-150 4x4

but...

the Cleveland was merely a copy of the Chevrolet Big Block with canted
valve heads- first released as the Mk II "Mystery Motor" at Daytona in
1963 in NASCAR. The only way NASCAR would allow Chevy to run it, was
if they gave a complete engine to Ford- to legalize it for racing- the
logic being, if it truly was a passenger car engine available to the
public, then Ford should be able to buy one. The Ford racers stopped
by Smokey Yunick's shop in Daytona, and he loaded a Mk II big block
Chevy onto their pickup truck- and they took it away.

Ford studied it, and changed a few things, and released their own
versions as the 385 series big block 429/460, and the 335 series 351C/
351M/400

this is common knowledge in racing circles and amongst auto
historians- it's also in Smokey Yunick's autobiographical accounts,
and in a few other automotive publications
 >> Stay informed about: Ford 351C Cleveland engines - key facts & information 

On Dec 12, 10:20 am, CobraJet wrote:
> In article
> ,
> Dwight D. Eisenhower wrote:

> > the Cleveland was merely a copy of the Chevrolet Big Block with canted
> > valve heads- first released as the Mk II "Mystery Motor" at Daytona in
> > 1963 in NASCAR. The only way NASCAR would allow Chevy to run it, was
> > if they gave a complete engine to Ford- to legalize it for racing- the
> > logic being, if it truly was a passenger car engine available to the
> > public, then Ford should be able to buy one. The Ford racers stopped
> > by Smokey Yunick's shop in Daytona, and he loaded a Mk II big block
> > Chevy onto their pickup truck- and they took it away.

> > Ford studied it, and changed a few things, and released their own
> > versions as the 385 series big block 429/460, and the 335 series 351C/
> > 351M/400

Ohv engines with splayed and canted valves are nearly as old as the IC
engine itself. While there were probably earlier similar layouts with
2-valves per cylinder, I know for a fact that Hispano-Suiza introduced
the first 4-valve head -- which is as staggered and canted as you can
get -- in 1912: 50 years before the Rat.

Of more relevance: the geneology of the Detroit V8 engine begins with
the 1932 Ford flathead. Next I would point to the Ardun ohv heads for
the flattie, introduced in 1947. The '49 Cadillac and Olds ohv V8s
introduced the "modern" era of the mass market ohv V8. Finally, it
was the hemi Chryslers -- which Zora Arkus-Duntov always claimed to
have been a rip-off of his Ardun heads -- which brought canted valves
to the masses.

The Chevy W-block engines had splayed -- but not canted -- valves.
Next came the Chevy Mark IV, aka the Rat, with canted and splayed
valves, in 1963.

Ford then introduced the splayed, canted valve 429 385 series,
followed by the 335 series. I don't know exact production figures,
but I would guess that Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury (and Ford of
Australia) produced at least three to four times as many canted
splayed valve engines as Chevy.

As of today, all three engines -- the Rat, the 385, and the 335 -- are
long out of production. Chevy itself is within 12 months of its final
dirt nap, with Ford poised to double its market share of pickups and
SUVs if it can survive these same 12 months. At that point Ford will
be fabulously profitable, and Chevy will be permanently consigned to
the "oh yeah, my grampa used to have one of those" dustbin of history.

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