Electical blues - Corolla

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:bOSdnUk2I-uN2DTanZ2dnUVZ_rqlnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "AW" <one_at_large RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:jRaqj.9446$Ej5.8141@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>> Can someone tell me what is a reasonable price for the electrical system
>> repair on 1997 Corolla? Alternator/regulator replacement? I live in
>> Chicago Illinois.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andre
>>
>
> A "reasonable price" depends on what is wrong with the car, and how much
> diagnosis is needed to determine what is wrong. How do you know that the
> alternator needs replacement? How many miles are on the car? How old is
> the battery?
>
> An OEM remanufactured alternator is probably around $300, and add $100
> labor to replace it. A cheap aftermarket alternator is probably around
> $175, and add $100 labor to replace it, with the higher possibility that
> the aftermarket alternator will need replacement in less than 5 years.
>
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>



Thanks, all I know is that the car won't start. The engine turns over fine,
but there is no ignition. It was dark and rainig last night, so I did not
bother to even open the hood. It may be the electrical, or possibly
something
with the fuel sytem. So far I have no clue. Anyway, the car has 125 000
miles
on it, and anything is far game. I just wanted to know ahead of time what
they
are likely to charge for things like

alternator replcement,

regulator replacement,

or fuel injectors.

???

The mechanic can say anything, so I wanted to have some idea.

Thx,

Andre
 >> Stay informed about: Electical blues - Corolla 

Tegger wrote:

> There happened to be an indefinite wait for OEM remans at that
> time and I needed use of the car right now, so I was forced
> into a reman from NAPA. Which led to another. And another.
>
> Alternator 1: Bad out-of-the-box. No charging.
> Alternator 2: Charged fine, but charge light glowed only dimly
> at key-on-engine-off instead of brightly as it should have.
> This one failed 11 months into its 12 month warranty.
> Alternator 3: Failed ten months into 12 month warranty.
>
> By that time I had had enough. Luckily the dealer by then was
> able to supply me with immediate access to factory remans
> for $400 versus $200 for the NAPA ones.
>
> So what was wrong with the last failed alternator? I pulled it
> apart to find out.
>
> Turned out one of the slip rings on the commutator was
> badly scarred:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/alt_replacement/l-bad_alt_slip-rings.jpg
>
> This had the effect of wearing down that one brush to nothing,
> so it wasn't making contact:
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/alt_replacement/k-bad_alt_brushes.jpg
>
> I dug out my old microscope from when I was a kid. I rigged
> the microscope and a light to closely examine the surface of the
> bad slip ring.
>
> To my astonishment, the surface of the bad ring appeared bubbled
> and blobby, as though it had been melted at some point. The
> blobs provided the abrasive surface that wore down the brush.
>
> What happened? I don't care. I'll never buy another
> aftermarket reman ever again.

Oh-oh. I just bought a NAPA remanufactured alternator for a Nissan.
Cross fingers.

Would a remanufactured one from Bosch or Autolite have been better?
 >> Stay informed about: Electical blues - Corolla 

Tegger wrote:

> "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly.RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote in
> news:a341a3f8-8035-4731-8229-a0434415f3d5@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

> > Oh-oh. I just bought a NAPA remanufactured alternator for a Nissan.
> > Cross fingers.
> >
> > Would a remanufactured one from Bosch or Autolite have been better?
>
> No. Only OEM Nissan.
>
> Be prepared to tear back in again in less than two years.

I forgot to mention that the alternator that burned out was a
remanufactured OEM Nissan -- even had "NISSAN" molded into its case,
and was installed in 2001 by a dealer. My only other remanufactured
OEM was a Delco, which seized a bearing in just a few weeks. This is
why I decided to take a chance on a NAPA alternator. BTW it looks a
bit different and has vent holes in the front instead of vent slots
like the Nissan alternator had.

At least NAPA increased their warranty to three years.
 >> Stay informed about: Electical blues - Corolla 

"AW" <one_at_large RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Gwtqj.7293$nK5.5389@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:bOSdnUk2I-uN2DTanZ2dnUVZ_rqlnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "AW" <one_at_large RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:jRaqj.9446$Ej5.8141@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>> Can someone tell me what is a reasonable price for the electrical system
>>> repair on 1997 Corolla? Alternator/regulator replacement? I live in
>>> Chicago Illinois.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Andre
>>>
>>
>> A "reasonable price" depends on what is wrong with the car, and how much
>> diagnosis is needed to determine what is wrong. How do you know that the
>> alternator needs replacement? How many miles are on the car? How old is
>> the battery?
>>
>> An OEM remanufactured alternator is probably around $300, and add $100
>> labor to replace it. A cheap aftermarket alternator is probably around
>> $175, and add $100 labor to replace it, with the higher possibility that
>> the aftermarket alternator will need replacement in less than 5 years.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>> (correct punctuation to reply)
>>
>
>
>
> Thanks, all I know is that the car won't start. The engine turns over
> fine,
> but there is no ignition. It was dark and rainig last night, so I did
> not
> bother to even open the hood. It may be the electrical, or possibly
> something
> with the fuel sytem. So far I have no clue. Anyway, the car has 125 000
> miles
> on it, and anything is far game. I just wanted to know ahead of time what
> they
> are likely to charge for things like
>
> alternator replcement,
>
> regulator replacement,
>
> or fuel injectors.
>
> ???
>
> The mechanic can say anything, so I wanted to have some idea.
>
> Thx,
>
> Andre
>
As Tegger mentioned, the reason the car won't start is definitely NOT the
alternator or voltage regulator.

An engine needs 3 things to run: air, fuel, and spark in the correct
proportions at the correct time. If the engine will crank but not start,
one of those 3 things is missing. The fuel injection system is pretty
reliable, so the next thing to check would be spark and then air.

Where in the Chicago area are you? If you are in the northwest suburbs, I
can recommend a couple of good dealers and a good independent shop.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
 >> Stay informed about: Electical blues - Corolla 

On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 17:54:26 -0800 (PST), "larry moe 'n curly"
<larrymoencurly.RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote:

>Oh-oh. I just bought a NAPA remanufactured alternator for a Nissan.
>Cross fingers.
>
>Would a remanufactured one from Bosch or Autolite have been better?

"I've been burned by the "fourth unit I install finally works" too.
Mine were from Kragen.

I would expect marginally better quality on a mass-market rebuild
from NAPA, because they have a higher percentage of sales to pro
repair shops. Pro shops will NOT waste their time going through that
crud more than once a year, they change suppliers - with two or three
hours lost each time it happens, plus they lose a good customer...

I won't buy an aftermarket rebuild any more if I can avoid it. My
first choice is to take MY UNIT to a local skilled and reputable auto
electric rebuilding shop (Mission Auto Electric, Pacoima CA.), and
have them go through it by hand.

It takes from 2 hours to two days to turn it around depending on how
busy they are, or if it needs a part that is out of stock, but they
know what parts are good to keep and what to toss. And it might cost
me a few more bucks than the parts store - but a LOT less than the
ripoff prices they want for a Genuine "Bosch" or "Toyota" official
reman.

But the important part is this: When I put it back in it works, and
keeps working. And that's what really counts.

--<< Bruce >>--
 >> Stay informed about: Electical blues - Corolla 

Hachiroku <Hachiroku_ae86.DeleteThis@ae86.gts> wrote in
news:pan.2008.02.06.22.44.00.469000@ae86.gts:


>
>
> I just rebuild my own. $45 for bearings, $7 for brushes and
> about an hour or so to take it apart and put it together again.
> Easy. The stator and comutator rarely go bad, and last a long
> time.



Depends where you live.

Up here in the Great White Rust Belt, my original ND alternator
bit the dust when the stator and commutator rusted together
while I was on vacation. Otherwise it was fine, and was
on its second set of brushes.

There happened to be an indefinite wait for OEM remans at that
time and I needed use of the car right now, so I was forced
into a reman from NAPA. Which led to another. And another.

Alternator 1: Bad out-of-the-box. No charging.
Alternator 2: Charged fine, but charge light glowed only dimly
at key-on-engine-off instead of brightly as it should have.
This one failed 11 months into its 12 month warranty.
Alternator 3: Failed ten months into 12 month warranty.

By that time I had had enough. Luckily the dealer by then was
able to supply me with immediate access to factory remans
for $400 versus $200 for the NAPA ones.

So what was wrong with the last failed alternator? I pulled it
apart to find out.

Turned out one of the slip rings on the commutator was
badly scarred:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/alt_replacement/l-bad_alt_slip-rings.jpg

This had the effect of wearing down that one brush to nothing,
so it wasn't making contact:
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/alt_replacement/k-bad_alt_brushes.jpg

I dug out my old microscope from when I was a kid. I rigged
the microscope and a light to closely examine the surface of the
bad slip ring.

To my astonishment, the surface of the bad ring appeared bubbled
and blobby, as though it had been melted at some point. The
blobs provided the abrasive surface that wore down the brush.

What happened? I don't care. I'll never buy another
aftermarket reman ever again.




--
Tegger
 >> Stay informed about: Electical blues - Corolla 

"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly.RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote in
news:a341a3f8-8035-4731-8229-a0434415f3d5@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

>
>
> Tegger wrote:
>

>> What happened? I don't care. I'll never buy another
>> aftermarket reman ever again.
>
> Oh-oh. I just bought a NAPA remanufactured alternator for a Nissan.
> Cross fingers.
>
> Would a remanufactured one from Bosch or Autolite have been better?
>
>
>
>


No. Only OEM Nissan.

Be prepared to tear back in again in less than two years.


--
Tegger
 >> Stay informed about: Electical blues - Corolla 

"AW" <one_at_large RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Gwtqj.7293$nK5.5389@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com:


>
>
> Thanks, all I know is that the car won't start. The engine turns over
> fine, but there is no ignition. It was dark and rainig last night,
> so I did not bother to even open the hood. It may be the electrical,
> or possibly something
> with the fuel sytem. So far I have no clue.



That's for sure.

You MUST determine whether or not you have spark -- and if you have it,
what /kind/ of spark. This means not only lifting the hood, but doing other
things as well.



> Anyway, the car has 125,000 miles on it, and anything is far game.
> I just wanted to know ahead of time what they are likely to charge
> for things like alternator replcement, regulator replacement, or
> fuel injectors.
>
> ???
>
> The mechanic can say anything, so I wanted to have some idea.
>


With your current approach you are ripe for a ripoff. Or at least you will
be unable to protect yourself against professional incompetence, which is
far more common than mendacity.

The problem is certainly NOT due to the alternator/regulator or injectors.

How old are your plug wires? Your distributor cap and rotor?

--
Tegger
 >> Stay informed about: Electical blues - Corolla 

larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>
> Tegger wrote:
>
>> "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly RemoveThis @my-deja.com> wrote in
>> news:a341a3f8-8035-4731-8229-a0434415f3d5@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
>
>>> Oh-oh. I just bought a NAPA remanufactured alternator for a Nissan.
>>> Cross fingers.
>>>
>>> Would a remanufactured one from Bosch or Autolite have been better?
>> No. Only OEM Nissan.
>>
>> Be prepared to tear back in again in less than two years.
>
> I forgot to mention that the alternator that burned out was a
> remanufactured OEM Nissan -- even had "NISSAN" molded into its case,
> and was installed in 2001 by a dealer.

I doubt Nissan remanufactures these themselves. They probably have
contractors that do this. A lot of remaned alternators that are sold by
other companies probably also have NISSAN molded into the case, because
it came of a NISSAN. In addition, sometimes reman companies will buy a
bunch of OEM alternators so that they will have a bunch to sell until
the get the cores back (I remember reading about a company that bought a
bunch of carbs 20 years ago, so that they would have them until the got
cores back - I assume that alternator companies can do this as well). I
guess the reman companies can also get cores off of wrecks, too.

Jeff

> My only other remanufactured
> OEM was a Delco, which seized a bearing in just a few weeks. This is
> why I decided to take a chance on a NAPA alternator. BTW it looks a
> bit different and has vent holes in the front instead of vent slots
> like the Nissan alternator had.
>
> At least NAPA increased their warranty to three years.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Electical blues - Corolla 

"larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly.DeleteThis@my-deja.com> wrote in news:5ce52a39-
adf6-41f1-945a-d912725217de.DeleteThis@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

>
>
> Tegger wrote:
>
>> "larry moe 'n curly" <larrymoencurly.DeleteThis@my-deja.com> wrote in
>> news:a341a3f8-8035-4731-8229-a0434415f3d5@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
>
>> > Oh-oh. I just bought a NAPA remanufactured alternator for a Nissan.
>> > Cross fingers.
>> >
>> > Would a remanufactured one from Bosch or Autolite have been better?
>>
>> No. Only OEM Nissan.
>>
>> Be prepared to tear back in again in less than two years.
>
> I forgot to mention that the alternator that burned out was a
> remanufactured OEM Nissan -- even had "NISSAN" molded into its case,
> and was installed in 2001 by a dealer.



That doesn't mean it was a /factory-authorized/ reman. Dealers sometimes
install aftermarket parts to cut costs.

My aftermarket alternators were all ND-brand, which is what my car came
with, so the rebuilders are using OEM alternators and rebuilding them. My
aftermarket remans all looked identical to the OEM reman.

You need to check your invoice from the dealer. If your bad alternator was
a factory-authorized part, it will have a Nissan part number. If it was
aftermarket, it should not have a Nissan part number.

Or maybe you just got unlucky.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
 >> Stay informed about: Electical blues - Corolla 

On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:42:01 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman
<blnospambergman.DeleteThis@earthlink.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 17:54:26 -0800 (PST), "larry moe 'n curly"
><larrymoencurly.DeleteThis@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>>Oh-oh. I just bought a NAPA remanufactured alternator for a Nissan.
>>Cross fingers.
>>
>>Would a remanufactured one from Bosch or Autolite have been better?
>
> "I've been burned by the "fourth unit I install finally works" too.
>Mine were from Kragen.
>
> I would expect marginally better quality on a mass-market rebuild
>from NAPA, because they have a higher percentage of sales to pro
>repair shops. Pro shops will NOT waste their time going through that
>crud more than once a year, they change suppliers - with two or three
>hours lost each time it happens, plus they lose a good customer...
>
But there is nothing to stop them from selling you a part that was
returned by someone else. There's always the chance that you will get
fed up and go somewhere else. Then again they don't really know that
the returned part is bad. The last guy might have returned it because
he found a loose wire or bad battery and didn't want to keep it, he
just said it was bad to get his money back. In short, when you buy a
remanufactured part you really don't know what you're getting. You're
much better off getting your old one rebuilt by a reputable shop.

Jack
 >> Stay informed about: Electical blues - Corolla 

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:erednYgf_9uwGjfanZ2dnUVZ_vumnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> As Tegger mentioned, the reason the car won't start is definitely NOT the
> alternator or voltage regulator.
>
> An engine needs 3 things to run: air, fuel, and spark in the correct
> proportions at the correct time. If the engine will crank but not start,
> one of those 3 things is missing. The fuel injection system is pretty
> reliable, so the next thing to check would be spark and then air.
>
> Where in the Chicago area are you? If you are in the northwest suburbs, I
> can recommend a couple of good dealers and a good independent shop.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
>

Agreed. A car will run without the alternator even connected. At least it
will until the battery dies anyway . This is why SLI batteries have an RC
(reserve capacity) rating which is how many minutes a battery will supply 25
amps without the voltage going lower than 10.5. This rating is to give you
an estimate of how many minutes you can continue to drive if your alternator
quits charging.
 >> Stay informed about: Electical blues - Corolla