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External
Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 1210
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:45 am
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>autos>honda (more info?)
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Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> "Andy" <blueflame1965.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net:
>>
>>
>>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord
>>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks.
>>>
>>> Haven't heard of that, cheers.
>>>
>>> AE
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a
>> servo actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the
>> power steering pump and reduce load on the engine.
>>
>> IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you.
>> There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart".
>>
>> On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something
>> important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto.
>>
>
>
> I agree. In airplanes (that receive continuous maintenance) it's ok but
> not in cars many of which are driven by idiots or worse.
>
> Give me a mechanical link to the function of steering,
still have one.
> throttle and
why? all a throttle does is control air. with a diesel, "throttle"
doesn't even do that!
> brakes anyday!
if you have hydraulic or air brakes, and most us have for at least 50
years, you have no direct mechanical linkage.
>
> OTOH, the L1011 is a fly by wire plane with a perfect safety record.
>
> JT |
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External
Since: Apr 23, 2007
Posts: 93
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:39 am
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Dec 5, 7:44 pm, "Andy" <blueflame1....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord
> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks.
>
> Haven't heard of that, cheers.
>
> AE
Hopefully, you have your answer but if not -
Drive by Wire typically refers to the electronic connection of the gas
pedal to the engine - so when you push down on the pedal, it sends a
signal to the engine control computer than you want to speed it. The
control computer then uses a whole series of inputs to determine how
to adjust the engine to meet your request. There isn't any mechanical
connection to the engine from the gas pedal. This is noticeable, for
example, when using cruise control - a DBW system won't cause the gas
pedal to move as the engine speed changes to maintain the cruise
setting. My Audi A4 has this feature.
Electric (or electronic) power steering simply replaces the hydraulic,
engine-driven power steering pump with an electric pump that doesn't
require being hooked to the engine. The steering is still a direct,
mechanical connection, so that if the pump fails, you can still steer
the car (albeit requiring much more force). I don't know that any cars
currently made have a non-direct mechanical connection between the
steering wheel and the front wheel, and would be VERY surprised to see
that happen in the near future.
Dan D
'07 Ody EX
Central NJ USA |
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External
Since: Dec 06, 2007
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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wow, cheers guys, look like i started something there, didn't I? lol
Thanks again I now have a little more understanding 
Thinking of buying a used 2.2 Diesel and noticed this wording and never seen
it mentioned before.
Does anyone have a 2.2 accord? Your comments on the vehicle i would
appreciate....
thanks again by the way...
AE
"Dano58" <dan.dibiase RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:719126f0-c388-4c77-bb89-9c2e5f548c9c@d61g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 5, 7:44 pm, "Andy" <blueflame1... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord
>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks.
>>
>> Haven't heard of that, cheers.
>>
>> AE
>
> Hopefully, you have your answer but if not -
>
> Drive by Wire typically refers to the electronic connection of the gas
> pedal to the engine - so when you push down on the pedal, it sends a
> signal to the engine control computer than you want to speed it. The
> control computer then uses a whole series of inputs to determine how
> to adjust the engine to meet your request. There isn't any mechanical
> connection to the engine from the gas pedal. This is noticeable, for
> example, when using cruise control - a DBW system won't cause the gas
> pedal to move as the engine speed changes to maintain the cruise
> setting. My Audi A4 has this feature.
>
> Electric (or electronic) power steering simply replaces the hydraulic,
> engine-driven power steering pump with an electric pump that doesn't
> require being hooked to the engine. The steering is still a direct,
> mechanical connection, so that if the pump fails, you can still steer
> the car (albeit requiring much more force). I don't know that any cars
> currently made have a non-direct mechanical connection between the
> steering wheel and the front wheel, and would be VERY surprised to see
> that happen in the near future.
>
> Dan D
> '07 Ody EX
> Central NJ USA >> Stay informed about: Drive by wire (DBW)???? |
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External
Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 740
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy.RemoveThis@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in
news:8lL5j.211000$kj1.56160@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
>
> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> "Andy" <blueflame1965.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net:
>>
>>
>>>Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord
>>>2.2i-CTDi, thanks.
>>>
>>>Haven't heard of that, cheers.
>>>
>>>AE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a
>> servo actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the
>> power steering pump and reduce load on the engine.
>>
>> IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you.
>> There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart".
>>
>> On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something
>> important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto.
>>
>
>
> I agree. In airplanes (that receive continuous maintenance) it's ok
> but not in cars many of which are driven by idiots or worse.
>
> Give me a mechanical link to the function of steering, throttle and
> brakes anyday!
>
> OTOH, the L1011 is a fly by wire plane with a perfect safety record.
>
> JT
>
yes,and the L1011 gets constant maintenance and checks,and has triple
redundancy in the flight controls.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net >> Stay informed about: Drive by wire (DBW)???? |
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External
Since: Dec 25, 2006
Posts: 489
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:26 am
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jim Yanik wrote:
> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy RemoveThis @ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in
> news:8lL5j.211000$kj1.56160@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
>
>>
>>Jim Yanik wrote:
>>
>>>"Andy" <blueflame1965 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord
>>>>2.2i-CTDi, thanks.
>>>>
>>>>Haven't heard of that, cheers.
>>>>
>>>>AE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a
>>>servo actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the
>>>power steering pump and reduce load on the engine.
>>>
>>>IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you.
>>>There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart".
>>>
>>>On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something
>>>important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto.
>>>
>>
>>
>>I agree. In airplanes (that receive continuous maintenance) it's ok
>>but not in cars many of which are driven by idiots or worse.
>>
>>Give me a mechanical link to the function of steering, throttle and
>>brakes anyday!
>>
>>OTOH, the L1011 is a fly by wire plane with a perfect safety record.
>>
>>JT
>>
>
>
> yes,and the L1011 gets constant maintenance and checks,and has triple
> redundancy in the flight controls.
>
Actually, the L1011 has four separate hydraulic systems.
You bet they're maintained. Such doesn't exist in the automotive world.
JT >> Stay informed about: Drive by wire (DBW)???? |
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External
Since: Dec 25, 2006
Posts: 489
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:29 am
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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jim beam wrote:
> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Jim Yanik wrote:
>>
>>> "Andy" <blueflame1965.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord
>>>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Haven't heard of that, cheers.
>>>>
>>>> AE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by a
>>> servo actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the
>>> power steering pump and reduce load on the engine.
>>>
>>> IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you.
>>> There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart".
>>>
>>> On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something
>>> important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I agree. In airplanes (that receive continuous maintenance) it's ok
>> but not in cars many of which are driven by idiots or worse.
>>
>> Give me a mechanical link to the function of steering,
>
>
> still have one.
>
>
>> throttle and
>
>
> why? all a throttle does is control air. with a diesel, "throttle"
> doesn't even do that!
>
>
>> brakes anyday!
>
>
> if you have hydraulic or air brakes, and most us have for at least 50
> years, you have no direct mechanical linkage.
>
>
>>
>> OTOH, the L1011 is a fly by wire plane with a perfect safety record.
>>
>> JT
So, as usual you are cantakerous and take statements out of context.
Drive by wire means EXACTLY that. Kindly stick to the basics, OK?
JT >> Stay informed about: Drive by wire (DBW)???? |
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External
Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 1210
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:29 am
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Andy" <blueflame1965 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:09OdndWeBLxH2MranZ2dnUVZ8uqdnZ2d@pipex.net:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord
>>>>> 2.2i-CTDi, thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Haven't heard of that, cheers.
>>>>>
>>>>> AE
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> the steering is actuated by an electric motor that is controlled by
>>>> a servo actuator loop at the wheel. They're trying to eliminate the
>>>> power steering pump and reduce load on the engine.
>>>>
>>>> IMO,not a good idea;if something glitches or fails,it WILL kill you.
>>>> There's a reason FlyByWire F-16s got the nickname "Yard Dart".
>>>>
>>>> On an F-16,F-15,F/A-18,you gain a lot of maneuverability,something
>>>> important for fighter jets,but totally unnecessary for an auto.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree. In airplanes (that receive continuous maintenance) it's ok
>>> but not in cars many of which are driven by idiots or worse.
>>>
>>> Give me a mechanical link to the function of steering,
>>
>>
>> still have one.
>>
>>
>>> throttle and
>>
>>
>> why? all a throttle does is control air. with a diesel, "throttle"
>> doesn't even do that!
>>
>>
>>> brakes anyday!
>>
>>
>> if you have hydraulic or air brakes, and most us have for at least 50
>> years, you have no direct mechanical linkage.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> OTOH, the L1011 is a fly by wire plane with a perfect safety record.
>>>
>>> JT
>
>
> So, as usual you are cantakerous and take statements out of context.
>
> Drive by wire means EXACTLY that. Kindly stick to the basics, OK?
>
> JT
>
"drive by wire" is not "steer by wire".
kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok? >> Stay informed about: Drive by wire (DBW)???? |
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External
Since: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 131
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:56 am
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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jim beam wrote:
> "drive by wire" is not "steer by wire".
>
> kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok?
You all sound like a bunch of bickering women.
"Drive by wire" is a term usurped from "fly by wire" in the first place,
used to refer to electronic steering control, throttle control,
potentially braking control (haven't seen anyone using that yet, but
it's only a matter of time), or any other electronic,
non-mechanically-interfaced control of a car's "drive" systems.
The term is used differently by different manufacturers as to which
system it's referring to, and indeed, probably refers to multiple
systems in some (throttle AND steering together, for example). Since
the meaning varies with the specific make of car, debating it here is
completely meaningless... same as debating whether the proper term is
ABS for Antilock Braking System, or ALB for Anti Lock Brakes, or any
other acronym for that type of system, which varies from one
manufacturer to the next. >> Stay informed about: Drive by wire (DBW)???? |
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External
Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 1210
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:56 am
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Matt Ion wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> "drive by wire" is not "steer by wire".
>>
>> kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok?
>
> You all sound like a bunch of bickering women.
you forgot "old".
>
> "Drive by wire" is a term usurped from "fly by wire" in the first place,
of course!!!
> used to refer to electronic steering control,
but /nobody/ has that. and nobody /will/ have that unless you want a
car with autopilot. and that's not coming to public roads for a while yet.
> throttle control,
most modern cars have that now.
> potentially braking control (haven't seen anyone using that yet,
mercedes had it [sbc - sensotronic brake control] but dropped it -
customers didn't like it. they even retrofitted back to standard/abs
brakes for cars that had been shipped with it.
> but
> it's only a matter of time), or any other electronic,
> non-mechanically-interfaced control of a car's "drive" systems.
>
> The term is used differently by different manufacturers as to which
> system it's referring to, and indeed, probably refers to multiple
> systems in some (throttle AND steering together, for example). Since
> the meaning varies with the specific make of car, debating it here is
> completely meaningless... same as debating whether the proper term is
> ABS for Antilock Braking System, or ALB for Anti Lock Brakes, or any
> other acronym for that type of system, which varies from one
> manufacturer to the next.
> >> Stay informed about: Drive by wire (DBW)???? |
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External
Since: Dec 25, 2006
Posts: 489
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:04 am
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Matt Ion wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> "drive by wire" is not "steer by wire".
>>
>> kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok?
>
>
> You all sound like a bunch of bickering women.
>
Sez you... You wanna make somethin of it???
<G>
> "Drive by wire" is a term usurped from "fly by wire" in the first place,
> used to refer to electronic steering control, throttle control,
> potentially braking control (haven't seen anyone using that yet, but
> it's only a matter of time), or any other electronic,
> non-mechanically-interfaced control of a car's "drive" systems.
>
> The term is used differently by different manufacturers as to which
> system it's referring to, and indeed, probably refers to multiple
> systems in some (throttle AND steering together, for example). Since
> the meaning varies with the specific make of car, debating it here is
> completely meaningless... same as debating whether the proper term is
> ABS for Antilock Braking System, or ALB for Anti Lock Brakes, or any
> other acronym for that type of system, which varies from one
> manufacturer to the next.
>
Actually, I'll accept your description since the application "...by
wire" is somewhat generic with automobiles.
Anti lock brakes have been used in aircraft for a long time but again,
airplanes are subject to specific mandatory maintenance regimens.
JT >> Stay informed about: Drive by wire (DBW)???? |
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External
Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 740
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Matt Ion <soundy106 DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in news:lo46j.4421$iU.3489@pd7urf2no:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> "drive by wire" is not "steer by wire".
>>
>> kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok?
>
> You all sound like a bunch of bickering women.
>
> "Drive by wire" is a term usurped from "fly by wire" in the first place,
> used to refer to electronic steering control, throttle control,
Actually,jet engines have had electronic "throttle" control long before the
term "fly-by-wire" came into use.The FBW term has been used for FLIGHT
controls("steering" the AC),not engine control.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net >> Stay informed about: Drive by wire (DBW)???? |
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External
Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 740
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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jim beam <spamvortex RemoveThis @bad.example.net> wrote in
news:16WdnUHf27wGRcXanZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@speakeasy.net:
> Matt Ion wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> "drive by wire" is not "steer by wire".
Uh,yeah,it is.
>>>
>>> kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok?
>>
>> You all sound like a bunch of bickering women.
>
> you forgot "old".
>
>
>>
>> "Drive by wire" is a term usurped from "fly by wire" in the first
>> place,
Meaning FLIGHT control("steering"),not engine control,since jet engines
have used electronic control long before FBW was implemented.
>
> of course!!!
>
>
>> used to refer to electronic steering control,
>
> but /nobody/ has that. and nobody /will/ have that unless you want a
> car with autopilot. and that's not coming to public roads for a while
> yet.
>
It's changing THIS YEAR;
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/11/09/070164.html
says Mazda will have it(electronic steering control) on one of their 2008
platforms
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net >> Stay informed about: Drive by wire (DBW)???? |
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External
Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 1210
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jim Yanik wrote:
> jim beam <spamvortex DeleteThis @bad.example.net> wrote in
> news:16WdnUHf27wGRcXanZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>
>> Matt Ion wrote:
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>> "drive by wire" is not "steer by wire".
>
> Uh,yeah,it is.
sorry dude, it's not. there are no cars that have that. not one.
/all/ use direct mechanical linkage between the steering wheel and the
front wheel knuckles. most have power assist. assist is not electronic
control.
>
>>>> kindly stick to "share what you know, learn what you don't", ok?
>>> You all sound like a bunch of bickering women.
>> you forgot "old".
>>
>>
>>> "Drive by wire" is a term usurped from "fly by wire" in the first
>>> place,
>
> Meaning FLIGHT control("steering"),not engine control,since jet engines
> have used electronic control long before FBW was implemented.
>> of course!!!
>>
>>
>>> used to refer to electronic steering control,
>> but /nobody/ has that. and nobody /will/ have that unless you want a
>> car with autopilot. and that's not coming to public roads for a while
>> yet.
>>
>
> It's changing THIS YEAR;
> http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/11/09/070164.html
> says Mazda will have it(electronic steering control) on one of their 2008
> platforms
you could argue that about the rear of honda's 4ws they had on the
prelude back in the 80's. but it's not the real deal. the fact
remains, all these vehicles have direct mechanical linkage. in the even
of system failure or shutdown, driver has direct mechanical control.
that is not the case with any form of "fly by wire". >> Stay informed about: Drive by wire (DBW)???? |
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External
Since: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 29) Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:07 am
Post subject: Re: Drive by wire (DBW)???? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 00:44:08 -0000, "Andy" <blueflame1965 DeleteThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Can you tell me what "Drive by Wire" is please, on new honda accord
>2.2i-CTDi, thanks.
Having the throttle controlled by an ECU (computer) driven Servo
instead of by a mechanical cable link. Something that Honda does very
well on the S2000 (which feels like a mechanical link and very
natural) yet very horribly on my wife's '07 Si sedan (which hangs for
about 1-1.5 seconds after letting off the throttle thus turning anyone
who has a clue how to drive into a herky-jerky looking idiot... In
this case it's worse than GM's skip shift and the service techs can't
seem to find a way to reprogram it...) >> Stay informed about: Drive by wire (DBW)???? |
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