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Next: ALFA gearboxes (146?)
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Joined: May 10, 2005
Posts: 24
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:44 pm
Post subject: Diesel Specialists?
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| Got a starting problem on my `95 306 Dturbo. To clear things up first, i have replaced glow plugs with genuine ones (tested them too, all ok) , performed cylinder head leakage test (All Ok) . It has a brand new Bosch battery on also.
If i go to start my car in the morning, i leave it til heater light goes out i will get a misfire for approx 5 - 15seconds,and will chuff out lots of white smoke (unburnt diesel?) if i leave the light to go out and leave a further 10seconds it will fire straight up with no smoke or misfire. When the engine is warm it will chug and fire up anywhere from 3 cranks to maybe 10 cranks, and chucks out clean white smoke but no misfire. Sometimes it can fire up perfect. If the car is left roughly 6 hours standing and i go to it, no matter how long i charge the plugs for it will misfire badly and chuck white smoke out. Performance is fine whilst running.
Took it to a diesel specialist and he said its a long shot , could be the rotor bushes (or something like that) in the diesel pump itself, he said its very very rare on this model, another downside is he can only test it with the pump off.
Does this sound a familiar problem with anyone? anykind of information will help! Thanks
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External
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 132
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:55 am
Post subject: Re: Diesel Specialists? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Hi,
> Got a starting problem on my `95 306 Dturbo. To clear things up first,
> i have replaced glow plugs with genuine ones (tested them too, all ok)
> , performed cylinder head leakage test (All Ok) . It has a brand new
> Bosch battery on also.
OK.
> out lots of white smoke (unburnt diesel?) if i leave the light to go
> out and leave a further 10seconds it will fire straight up with no
> smoke or misfire. When the engine is warm it will chug and fire up
> anywhere from 3 cranks to maybe 10 cranks, and chucks out clean white
> smoke but no misfire. Sometimes it can fire up perfect. If the car is
[...]
Strange, it has all the signs of duff glow plugs.
Have you checked you have power on all of them ?
Another point is, if you checked the resistance of them, I'm affraid that
low-cost multimeters are inaccurate with low values.
The behavior you describe (i.e waiting a little after the light goes off and
starts fine) is pretty common.
These cars (like any car for 20 years or so) have a PPR-box (Pré-Post
chauffe Rapide - fast Pre-Post Glowing), this means that the glow plugs'
control box supplies them for about 10s (yellow light on), and for some time
after the light goes off (some seconds). You can hear the relay click when
you turn the key on, and click another time a little while after the light
is off (usually 5-10s). The second click is the relay deactivation - this is
only here the plugs are off.
It may also be caused by some air into the fuel circuit, but usually causes
a "constant" starting problem. My brother's '91 205 has developped such a
fault when it is parked for a while (some weeks).
Regards,
G.T
205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : www.205d.com |
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Joined: May 10, 2005
Posts: 24
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Diesel Specialists? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Thanks, i had a suspision of the glow plugs . I have tested all the glow plugs before fitted, sent a live to them, watching the tips glow, tested ohms etc (used works trustworthy multimeter)... also cleaned up the contact areas on the rail to the plugs! Should i take a gamble on taking my diesel pump off? They didnt seem to sure. >> Stay informed about: Diesel Specialists? |
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External
Since: Sep 01, 2005
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:55 am
Post subject: Re: Diesel Specialists? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 28 Sep 2005 17:36:24 -0400, trollgeddon
<UseLinkToEmail RemoveThis @AutoForumz.com> wrote:
>"" wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > > Got a starting problem on my `95 306 Dturbo. To clear things
> > up first,
> > > i have replaced glow plugs with genuine ones (tested them
> > too, all ok)
> > > , performed cylinder head leakage test (All Ok) . It has a
> > brand new
> > > Bosch battery on also.
> > OK.
> >
> > > out lots of white smoke (unburnt diesel?) if i leave the
> > light to go
> > > out and leave a further 10seconds it will fire straight up
> > with no
> > > smoke or misfire. When the engine is warm it will chug and
> > fire up
> > > anywhere from 3 cranks to maybe 10 cranks, and chucks out
> > clean white
> > > smoke but no misfire. Sometimes it can fire up perfect. If
> > the car is
> > [...]
> > Strange, it has all the signs of duff glow plugs.
> > Have you checked you have power on all of them ?
> > Another point is, if you checked the resistance of them, I'm
> > affraid that
> > low-cost multimeters are inaccurate with low values.
> >
> > The behavior you describe (i.e waiting a little after the
> > light goes off and
> > starts fine) is pretty common.
> >
> > These cars (like any car for 20 years or so) have a PPR-box
> > (Pré-Post
> > chauffe Rapide - fast Pre-Post Glowing), this means that the
> > glow plugs'
> > control box supplies them for about 10s (yellow light on), and
> > for some time
> > after the light goes off (some seconds). You can hear the
> > relay click when
> > you turn the key on, and click another time a little while
> > after the light
> > is off (usually 5-10s). The second click is the relay
> > deactivation - this is
> > only here the plugs are off.
> >
> > It may also be caused by some air into the fuel circuit, but
> > usually causes
> > a "constant" starting problem. My brother's '91 205 has
> > developped such a
> > fault when it is parked for a while (some weeks).
> >
> > Regards,
> > G.T
> > 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : www.205d.com
>
>Thanks, i had a suspision of the glow plugs . I have tested all the
>glow plugs before fitted, sent a live to them, watching the tips glow,
>tested ohms etc (used works trustworthy multimeter)... also cleaned up
>the contact areas on the rail to the plugs! Should i take a gamble on
>taking my diesel pump off? They didnt seem to sure.
you should test if there is any AND sufficient power going to the
plugs, they use more than just a few Amps ( take them out and see if
they glow when preheating)
you could check the fuel lines for air,
is your timing belt stil in the right place? check for wear, broken
teeth, etc.
not likely to be the fuel pump i'd say, maybe be the timing can be
off.
it might be that the injectors have gone dodgy, there's another thing
to check for.
best luck
Marc >> Stay informed about: Diesel Specialists? |
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Joined: May 10, 2005
Posts: 24
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Diesel Specialists? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Well its due for a timing belt in in the next 10000 miles or so, i was going to jump ahead and change it pretty soon, check everything is ok and whilst doing that send my diesel pump off to be tested. Before i do that i will check for air bubbles in fuel lines ( but i dont think thatd cause it due to the fact that it will start fine sometimes) I myself think that the plugs are fine but once ive fitted this belt , if the problem isnt cured i will take it to a specialist, i have no information on the car and its not like the vehicles i work on.
Also the diesel specialists that had a quick look said it couldnt be the injectors, Definatly! They are pretty good at what they do but im not convinced in this case with my pump. >> Stay informed about: Diesel Specialists? |
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Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 132
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Diesel Specialists? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Hi,
> is your timing belt stil in the right place? check for wear, broken
> teeth, etc.
> not likely to be the fuel pump i'd say, maybe be the timing can be
> off.
I'm in doubt here, usually it doesn't forgive such things...
> it might be that the injectors have gone dodgy, there's another thing
> to check for.
Also in doubt here. IMO, a problem with injectors may well involve some
other problems, like bad performance / MPG, which would be "constant".
Regards,
G.T
205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : www.205d.com >> Stay informed about: Diesel Specialists? |
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Since: Jan 07, 2005
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:27 am
Post subject: Re: Diesel Specialists? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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trollgeddon wrote:
>
>
> Well its due for a timing belt in in the next 10000 miles or so, i was
> going to jump ahead and change it pretty soon, check everything is ok
> and whilst doing that
The timing belt isn't what he was talking about. Whilst it's a good
idea to change it, it won't affect your problem.
--
Malc >> Stay informed about: Diesel Specialists? |
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Since: Sep 01, 2005
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:55 am
Post subject: Re: Diesel Specialists? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:02:24 +0200, "G.T" <g.t6.DeleteThis@worldonline.fr> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>> is your timing belt stil in the right place? check for wear, broken
>> teeth, etc.
>> not likely to be the fuel pump i'd say, maybe be the timing can be
>> off.
>I'm in doubt here, usually it doesn't forgive such things...
i refered to the timing of the pump,
sorry i was not clear about that.
problems with timing belts are very unforgiving indeed...
>
>> it might be that the injectors have gone dodgy, there's another thing
>> to check for.
>Also in doubt here. IMO, a problem with injectors may well involve some
>other problems, like bad performance / MPG, which would be "constant".
not al together true. if the injectors have clogged up somewhat it
does get a starting problem, even when warm,
once it runs all seem to be fine.
when i redid the injectors of my 305 that was exactly the symptom.
it started bad, ran bad for 200/300 meters and then took of in smoke
until it was warm and ran just fine.
i replaced the preheater bougies ( which were far gone... ) and that
gave a bit of relief.
the atomisation footprint from the overhauled injector was way way
better than the ones that came out of my car, putting them in it
started right away again an ran fine even without preheating.
it had a ton more torque to...
although mine went at 375.000 km, injectors dont live forever even in
a PSA engine...
I'd say the OP has to stay well away from Pug garagists and go to a
good diesel specialist to have those things sorted out, checking
injectors is a relative simple procedure
cheers
Marc >> Stay informed about: Diesel Specialists? |
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Since: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:55 am
Post subject: Re: Diesel Specialists? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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check the plugs. i bought some new ones and 1 was faulty. You're symptoms
sound like a duff plug.
"Malc" <malcolm.white RemoveThis @ubht.swest.nhs.uk> wrote in message
news:1128065227.219477.71540@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> trollgeddon wrote:
>>
>>
>> Well its due for a timing belt in in the next 10000 miles or so, i was
>> going to jump ahead and change it pretty soon, check everything is ok
>> and whilst doing that
>
> The timing belt isn't what he was talking about. Whilst it's a good
> idea to change it, it won't affect your problem.
>
> --
> Malc
> >> Stay informed about: Diesel Specialists? |
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Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 132
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Diesel Specialists? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Hi,
> i refered to the timing of the pump,
> sorry i was not clear about that.
> problems with timing belts are very unforgiving indeed...
You mean the pump advance, the stuff which is set by the position of the
pump on the engine ? Yeah could be that, but prettty unlikely to move.
> the atomisation footprint from the overhauled injector was way way
> better than the ones that came out of my car, putting them in it
> started right away again an ran fine even without preheating.
> it had a ton more torque to...
We both agree about this point, the Diesel engine is pretty sensitive to the
injectors' setup (injection footprint & pressure).
Perhaps I could try this, as I tend to think my car has a little leak of
power.
My opinion too, the OP should try to stick to a Diesel specialist, or a
Lucas or Bosch station.
HTH,
G.T
205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : www.205d.com >> Stay informed about: Diesel Specialists? |
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