Corolla, Camry, or Prius?

"SMS" <scharf.steven RemoveThis @geemail.com> wrote in message
news:Uml1k.3024$uE5.1769@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
> Cathy F. wrote:
>
>> Okay, then laugh at me. But I'll take that hard-bargained-for $200 over
>> what was invoice price way before I'll pay anything *near* MSRP for a
>> Corolla. How many people walk into a dealership, see something they like
>> on the lot, & that day agree to pay whatever the sales person says is the
>> lowest they'll go? (Which is baloney.)
>>
>> Cathy
>
> You shouldn't have to bargain at all for $200 over invoice. For Camrys and
> Corollas the dealers often advertise prices lower than this in their "all
> in stock at this price" sales.
>
> Actually I shouldn't laugh. I have no idea where you are located.

NY; upstate.

It's
> very possible that California dealers accept lower prices for Toyotas than
> dealers in whatever state you're in. It's extremely competitive here, even
> more so in southern California than northern California. So maybe we're
> just spoiled out here. Don't worry, our high sales tax makes up for the
> lower prices.

NY isn't exactly renowned for low taxes. When I last bought a car in '04,
the sales tax was close to 10% (9.75, IIRC) in this particular locale. Not
nice, esp. when buying big-ticket items.

Cathy
 >> Stay informed about: Corolla, Camry, or Prius? 

"SMS" <scharf.steven DeleteThis @geemail.com> wrote in message
news:xYl1k.3412$N87.3299@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article <DMOdncpl8cUjRdjV4p2dnAA DeleteThis @giganews.com>,
>> "Cathy F." <clfrclfr DeleteThis @adelphiadotdashdot.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Okay, then laugh at me. But I'll take that hard-bargained-for $200 over
>>> what was invoice price way before I'll pay anything *near* MSRP for a
>>> Corolla.
>>
>> (pssssst--"invoice" is the new MSRP)
>
> It certainly seems to be the case in my area. Dealers are very happy to
> sell at invoice price. Too happy.

Consider yourselves lucky.

Cathy
 >> Stay informed about: Corolla, Camry, or Prius? 

"SMS" <scharf.steven.RemoveThis@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:Uml1k.3024$uE5.1769@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
> Cathy F. wrote:
>
>> Okay, then laugh at me. But I'll take that hard-bargained-for $200 over
>> what was invoice price way before I'll pay anything *near* MSRP for a
>> Corolla. How many people walk into a dealership, see something they like
>> on the lot, & that day agree to pay whatever the sales person says is the
>> lowest they'll go? (Which is baloney.)
>>
>> Cathy
>
> You shouldn't have to bargain at all for $200 over invoice.

Ha. I wish.

For Camrys
> and Corollas the dealers often advertise prices lower than this in their
> "all in stock at this price" sales.

I have yet (since '72) to find exactly what I want on a local dealer's lot.
Never the correct combo of options sitting there.

Cathy




>
> Actually I shouldn't laugh. I have no idea where you are located. It's
> very possible that California dealers accept lower prices for Toyotas than
> dealers in whatever state you're in. It's extremely competitive here, even
> more so in southern California than northern California. So maybe we're
> just spoiled out here. Don't worry, our high sales tax makes up for the
> lower prices.
 >> Stay informed about: Corolla, Camry, or Prius? 

"Cathy F." <clfrclfr RemoveThis @adelphiadotdashdot.net> wrote in message
news:afqdnafzGp-bbdjVRVn_vwA@giganews.com...
> I have yet (since '72) to find exactly what I want on a local dealer's
> lot. Never the correct combo of options sitting there.
>
> Cathy

The options are ordered from the factory by the regional Toyota distributor.
The dealers theoretically have some input into the decision (if they want to
make their voice heard) but the distributors do not want to get stuck with
an unpopular combination of options.
 >> Stay informed about: Corolla, Camry, or Prius? 

<bungalow_steve.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8c85ed01-d950-44a1-9955-ba83e8bb1066@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...


The prius just doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it or work
the numbers, 45mpg highway (summer numbers, brand new batteries,
````````````````````````````````
---Huh; colleague got 55 mpg driving their new Prius on the Thruway.

``````````````````````````````
winter is much worse, and battery charge capacity reduces every year),
that mpg is what my 85 prelude got,
`````````````````
---Your Prelude got 45 mpg??

---Cathy






your getting a 12K econo box gas
car that's been hybridized.

The plug in hybrids to be released in a few years seem to be a much
better solution, 40miles on one overnight charge, no gas usage unless
you go over 40miles between charges.
 >> Stay informed about: Corolla, Camry, or Prius? 

"Cathy F." <clfrclfr.DeleteThis@adelphiadotdashdot.net> wrote in message
news:CqidnQD-APvPhtvVRVn_vwA@giganews.com...
> The plug in hybrids to be released in a few years seem to be a much
> better solution, 40miles on one overnight charge, no gas usage unless
> you go over 40miles between charges.

Not sure why that is better. You have to pay for the electricity, most of
which is produced by power plants that burn fossil fuels (natural gas or
coal). Admittedly, some electricity is produced by nuclear plants or
hydroelectric, but it is not cheap.
 >> Stay informed about: Corolla, Camry, or Prius? 

"Mark A" <nobody.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:82p1k.7239$8X4.3204@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> "Cathy F." <clfrclfr.DeleteThis@adelphiadotdashdot.net> wrote in message
> news:CqidnQD-APvPhtvVRVn_vwA@giganews.com...
>> The plug in hybrids to be released in a few years seem to be a much
>> better solution, 40miles on one overnight charge, no gas usage unless
>> you go over 40miles between charges.
>
> Not sure why that is better. You have to pay for the electricity, most of
> which is produced by power plants that burn fossil fuels (natural gas or
> coal). Admittedly, some electricity is produced by nuclear plants or
> hydroelectric, but it is not cheap.

?? I didn't write the above post to which you replied.

Cathy


>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Corolla, Camry, or Prius? 

"Mark A" <nobody.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:82p1k.7239$8X4.3204@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> "Cathy F." <clfrclfr.TakeThisOut@adelphiadotdashdot.net> wrote in message
> news:CqidnQD-APvPhtvVRVn_vwA@giganews.com...
>> The plug in hybrids to be released in a few years seem to be a much
>> better solution, 40miles on one overnight charge, no gas usage unless
>> you go over 40miles between charges.
>
> Not sure why that is better. You have to pay for the electricity, most of
> which is produced by power plants that burn fossil fuels (natural gas or
> coal). Admittedly, some electricity is produced by nuclear plants or
> hydroelectric, but it is not cheap.

Go back a few posts; bungalo steve wrote that post, pas moi.

Cathy
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Corolla, Camry, or Prius? 

"Cathy F." <clfrclfr.RemoveThis@adelphiadotdashdot.net> wrote in message
news:xM-dnb5KjKWNgtvVRVn_vwA@giganews.com...
> ?? I didn't write the above post to which you replied.
>
> Cathy

Sorry.
 >> Stay informed about: Corolla, Camry, or Prius? 

"dbu" <nospam DeleteThis @nospam.moc> wrote in message
news:nospam-DFEB8C.04341503062008@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article <G_adnYK148I_SNnVnZ2dnUVZ_vninZ2d DeleteThis @comcast.com>,
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>
>> "Cathy F." <clfrclfr DeleteThis @adelphiadotdashdot.net> wrote in message
>> news:Q4-dnT1uQ4ToBtnVRVn_vwA@giganews.com...
>> <snippede>
>>
>> >>> > When will the batteries need replacement? How much will it cost?
>> >>> > If
>> >>> > I
>> >>> > am a prospective used Prius customer these questions come to mind
>> >>> > along
>> >>> > with a few more.
>> >>>
>> >>> Read Ray O.'s reply.
>> >>>
>> >>> Cathy
>> >>
>> >> Cause I've been very busy here, I missed his reply, when did he make
>> >> it
>> >> so I can narrow my search?
>> >
>> > The time stamp is 2:13 am.
>> >
>>
>> Hmmm, no wonder I was so drowsy this afternoon!
>>
>> > It's right in this thread, which which isn't all that long. (Let's
>> > see, I
>> > went to work, went to the dentist, made dinner, painted the rebuilt
>> > flowerboxes, & am in the middle of correcting papers, yet I can somehow
>> > manage to find Ray's post in this thread. Imagine that. Jeez.)]
>> >
>> > Cathy
>> >
>>
>> For everyone's convenience, I've copied and pasted my post...
>>
>> "The Prius probably has the best combination of interior room and fuel
>> economy of the 3 cars you mentioned, but with the price premium for the
>> Prius, it will probably take 4 or 5 years to break even vs. the price of
>> a
>> Corolla. If you are only going to keep the car for 5 years, the Prius
>> may
>> not be worth the higher cost. If you are going to keep the car for 10
>> years, then you may be ahead. A lot of people will tell you to worry
>> about
>> the cost of replacement batteries for the Prius, but in the 9 years that
>> Toyota has sold hybrid cars in the U.S., they have only sold 1 or 2
>> battery
>> packs so replacement batteries should not be a factor.
>>
>> If fuel economy is the biggest concern, look at the Corolla. If interior
>> room is important, look at the Camry."
>
> What about trunk space?

I didn't mention trunk space because the OP didn't mention trunk space as a
factor in his decision.
The Corolla has 12.3 cu. ft. trunk volume.
The Prius has 14.4 cu. ft.
The Camry has 14.5 cu. ft

Of course, the shape of the trunk is just as important as cubic feet, but it
appears as if the Prius is pretty close to the Camry in trunk space.

Why are the batteries so long life and what
> type of a battery does it use? How about in very cold climates, are
> they just as reliable and how does -25 temp affect it's operation, how
> about salt, is there anything to be extra concerned about when driving
> it in what is basically a salt bath in this area? Does RayO plan on
> buying one? If not why not?

The batteries are nickel metal hydride.

The batteries have a long life because the charging control system keeps the
batteries' state of charge in an optimal range without ever depleting the
batteries or charging them to 100%. NiMH batteries in consumer electronics
have a much shorter useful life span because the range of charging and
discharging is much greater.

The batteries are just as reliable in very cold climates.

-25 temp reduces its capacity but doesn't eliminate it. In other words,
you're still ahead, but not as much as in a warmer climate.

Salt may raise one's blood pressure, but in hybrid Toyotas, the battery
packs are not exposed to road salt since they are in the vehicle's interior.

I don't plan on buying a Prius because I don't need a new car right now. I
would consider a hybrid Highlander or RX 400h when it is time to replace our
Sequoia after we are empty-nesters.

My sister has a 400h and likes it.

>
> I have looked at that boxy Toyota and like the interior space, I believe
> it's called a Sicon or something. I wonder how the ride is, especially
> long trips, at freeway speeds, maybe a bit choppy? Perhaps they'll
> hybridize that model?

Toyota plans on eventually offering a hybrid version of all of its vehicles.
The limiting factor is the capacity of the plants that produce the
batteries. Toyota recently announced that it is building 3 new plants to
produce batteries.

>
> I'm currently using a Sienna and it's ride is like on a cloud, what a
> great vehicle, no rattles, good gas milage. I know someone who had a
> hybrid highlander and liked it, but sold it fairly quickly. Not sure
> why, maybe the high initial cost. They are quite spendy at around $40K
> I believe.

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
 >> Stay informed about: Corolla, Camry, or Prius? 

"dbu" <nospam.TakeThisOut@nospam.moc> wrote in message
news:nospam-DFEB8C.04341503062008@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> What about trunk space?

The HV battery is mounted directly behind the rear seat bottom and is
partially underneath the seat bottom IIRC so the trunk/hatch space is mostly
unaffected.

>Why are the batteries so long life and what type of a battery does it use?

The battery ECU has strict limits coded in the firmware that will not allow
the battery to go over 82% or under 40% SOC (state of charge) and applies
equalization charges as necessary to keep the series string balanced. The
battery gauge on the multifunction display (MFD/touch screen LCD) only shows
the active range so no bars= ~40% and all bars= ~80% charge. The battery
chemistry is NiMh. I personally don't know of any other portable devices
with a NiMh pack that treats it as well as the Prius (and any other HSD
vehicle) treats its pack.

There is also a small 12V lead-acid battery that is supposed to be AGM with
a vent tube but has been found to be a conventional flooded design in
certain cars.

> How about in very cold climates, are they just as reliable and how
> does -25 temp affect it's operation, how about salt,is there anything to
> be extra concerned about when driving
> it in what is basically a salt bath in this area?

Cold operation is not a problem since the HV battery cranks the gas engine.
About the worst that could happen is reduced performance until the HV
battery warms up to a normal temp. In the classic NHW11 Prius (2001-2003)
this mode is noted by a small turtle icon that lights up on the dash but the
NHW20 (2004-current) doesn't have that light. Go to http://john1701a.com as
he lives in Minnesota and has lots of info on cold winter operation.

> Does RayO plan on
> buying one? If not why not?

Dunno

> I have looked at that boxy Toyota and like the interior space, I believe
> it's called a Sicon or something. I wonder how the ride is, especially
> long trips, at freeway speeds, maybe a bit choppy? Perhaps they'll
> hybridize that model?

That would be the Scion XB AKA the shoebox on wheels (my term). There isn't
a hybrid model yet but there is a third party BEV version called the E-Box
http://www.acpropulsion.com/ebox/

> I'm currently using a Sienna and it's ride is like on a cloud, what a
> great vehicle, no rattles, good gas milage. I know someone who had a
> hybrid highlander and liked it, but sold it fairly quickly. Not sure
> why, maybe the high initial cost. They are quite spendy at around $40K
> I believe.
> --
>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Corolla, Camry, or Prius? 

"Mark A" <nobody.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:NXi1k.3665$tT4.3652@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> <mrdarrett.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:161f7201-90a2-4385-93d4-8cced7031c87@q24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> FWIW, we still have our '96 Camry 12 years after we bought it, and
>> it's got 152k miles on it.
>>
>> It's gone through at least 3 lead-acid batteries. (Not that I'm
>> implying the Camry's alternator is as good as a Prius' electronic
>> charging circuitry.)
>>
>> If we wanted to ditch our cars when they hit 50k miles, we'd buy
>> Fords.
>>
>> Michael
>
> The battery that runs the Prius electric motor is not lead acid like your
> starting battery. It is a NiMH battery pack.
>

True, but the Prius still has a 12V lead acid battery which powers the ECUs,
lights, radio, brake accumulator pump, inverter coolant pump, electric power
steering, ETC. The only thing it doesn't do is crank the engine. It is
recharged off of the HV pack by a 100A DC-DC converter set to about 14V.
Note that since the engine shuts off on a regular basis the hydraulic brakes
aren't vacuum assisted as that is what the accumulator pump is for and the
power steering is electric not hydraulic.
 >> Stay informed about: Corolla, Camry, or Prius? 

<bungalow_steve.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8c85ed01-d950-44a1-9955-ba83e8bb1066@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 1, 11:51 pm, Ajanta <aja....TakeThisOut@null.void> wrote:
> I would appreciate opinions/experience on which of these would make the
> wisest purchase of a new (2008/2009) car for 5-10 years?
>
> I look upon cars as utility items and was thinking of Corolla.
>
> SO seems smitten with Camry and keeps saying Corolla's back seats seem
> crowded (as if we are running a taxi, it is a rare day when anyone sits
> there). I have nothing against Camry, but I am thinking we spend more
> money and get porer mpg.
>
> Finally I said, if we are into Camry price range, why not consider
> Prius too and at least get the mileage?
>
> That's where we are.
>
> They are all good cars, but I'd appreciate your opinions on relative
> value.

> corolla 35mpg, camry 31 mpg, if you drive 12,000 mile a year, that's
> 44 extra gallons you need to buy for the camry, or about $200/year or
> about 50 cents a day. not significant enough, in my opinon, to be a
> factor in choosing one car over the other. The initial cost (3k
> more) is much more of a factor...gas is still cheap, all things
> considered.

> The prius just doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it or work
> the numbers, 45mpg highway (summer numbers, brand new batteries,
> winter is much worse, and battery charge capacity reduces every year),
> that mpg is what my 85 prelude got, your getting a 12K econo box gas
> car that's been hybridized.

> The plug in hybrids to be released in a few years seem to be a much
> better solution, 40miles on one overnight charge, no gas usage unless
> you go over 40miles between charges.

Sorry but your Prelude was a 2 door subcompact Coupe not a 4 door compact
Sedan (NHW11 2001-2003) or a 5 door midsize hatchback (NHW20 2004-current)
Prius. It also didn't have a touch screen in the dash standard and without
2-4 of these 250A alternators:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/Extreme%20Duty%20Dual%20Rectifier%20CS-...%20type
it also couldn't supply the electrical power that the Prius can:
http://www.priups.com .
 >> Stay informed about: Corolla, Camry, or Prius?