Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy

alvinamorey.DeleteThis@notmail.com wrote:
> I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
> their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
> which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
> neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
> of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
> wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
> a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.
>
> 1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
> hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
> would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.
>
> 2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
> doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
> would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
> alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
> from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
> anyone ever done anything like this?
>
> I'm having fun with this project....
>
> Alvin
>
Hi,
How about solar panel?
 >> Stay informed about: Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy 

Tony Hwang wrote:

> alvinamorey DeleteThis @notmail.com wrote:
>
>> I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
>> their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
>> which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
>> neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
>> of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
>> wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
>> a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.
>> 1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
>> hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
>> would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.
>> 2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
>> doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
>> would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
>> alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.
>> Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
>> from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
>> anyone ever done anything like this?
>> I'm having fun with this project....
>>
>> Alvin
>>
> Hi,
> How about solar panel?
And LED lights which draws very small amount of current.
 >> Stay informed about: Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy 

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 02:16:53 -0600, alvinamorey RemoveThis @notmail.com <alvinamorey RemoveThis @notmail.com> wrote:


>Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
>from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
>anyone ever done anything like this?

Use lanterns. If you're going to live in the bronze age, then electric lighting
isn't available.
 >> Stay informed about: Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy 

According to HerHusband <unknown.RemoveThis@unknown.com>:

> I don't know much about the Amish, but I thought the idea was to avoid
> modern technology? Couldn't they use lanterns as was done before electrical
> lights were available?

It's not so much an avoidance of "modern technology", it's more of
an avoidance of depending on outside resources. Electricity isn't
as much of an issue as being connected to the grid is. Tho, it
depends on "which" Amish you're talking about. There are different
levels of interpretation, and different levels of willingness to
adapt to the modern world.

Eg: they won't have a car. But most won't turn down a ride in one
if it's going somewhere they need to go, and some aren't shy about
asking for a ride

Eg: many Amish in the US came from Canada (south west Ontario) when
Canada imposed refrigeration requirements on dairy production. When the
corresponding US states imposed refrigeration, some Amish moved either
to states that didn't require it, or to Mexico. Others adapted and
stayed where they are. Most Amish, for example, refuse to have a
telephone. But as an example of "modern compromise", some will have an
outdoor phone for calls pertaining to their dairy operation.

My wife and her sister bed-and-breakfasted with Pennsylvania
Amish farm families, and recounted the amusing incident where
the Amish family's teenage daughter had to stand outside in the rain
at the "dairy phone" to talk to one of her friends.

I thought of bicycle generators (car-size alternators or generators
will sometimes present too much load to the available horse power
too.

However, I don't think they'd be terribly effective long-term
solutions. They'd always be diddling with them. Something
simple and mostly maintenance free is better.

Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them
to use smaller/cheaper batteries too.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
 >> Stay informed about: Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy 

I found it amusing when we visited amish country in Indiana. We went to
their modern type general store that has gas lights and sunpipes and
skylights. So far so good. Then, all around the perimeter of the store
are modern refrigerator cases. What runs them??? A/C power made from
inverters off a bank of about 100 car batteries being charged by the
thermoking reefer unit out on the semi trailer. I goes out to look. Upon
this thermoking unit are 6, Yes count them SIX, high output General motors
style alternators to charge this bank of batteries. A huge 500 gallon
diesel tank stands near by to feed this fuel monster. Now how is that being
disconnected from society??? It's rediculous to burn all that diesel when
all he'd have to do it hook up to the electricty.

s


"Chris Lewis" <clewis.RemoveThis@nortelnetworks.com> wrote in message
news:13j6b9021bdjh7e@corp.supernews.com...
> According to HerHusband <unknown.RemoveThis@unknown.com>:
>
>> I don't know much about the Amish, but I thought the idea was to avoid
>> modern technology? Couldn't they use lanterns as was done before
>> electrical
>> lights were available?
>
> It's not so much an avoidance of "modern technology", it's more of
> an avoidance of depending on outside resources. Electricity isn't
> as much of an issue as being connected to the grid is. Tho, it
> depends on "which" Amish you're talking about. There are different
> levels of interpretation, and different levels of willingness to
> adapt to the modern world.
>
> Eg: they won't have a car. But most won't turn down a ride in one
> if it's going somewhere they need to go, and some aren't shy about
> asking for a ride
>
> Eg: many Amish in the US came from Canada (south west Ontario) when
> Canada imposed refrigeration requirements on dairy production. When the
> corresponding US states imposed refrigeration, some Amish moved either
> to states that didn't require it, or to Mexico. Others adapted and
> stayed where they are. Most Amish, for example, refuse to have a
> telephone. But as an example of "modern compromise", some will have an
> outdoor phone for calls pertaining to their dairy operation.
>
> My wife and her sister bed-and-breakfasted with Pennsylvania
> Amish farm families, and recounted the amusing incident where
> the Amish family's teenage daughter had to stand outside in the rain
> at the "dairy phone" to talk to one of her friends.
>
> I thought of bicycle generators (car-size alternators or generators
> will sometimes present too much load to the available horse power
> too.
>
> However, I don't think they'd be terribly effective long-term
> solutions. They'd always be diddling with them. Something
> simple and mostly maintenance free is better.
>
> Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them
> to use smaller/cheaper batteries too.
> --
> Chris Lewis,
>
> Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
> It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
 >> Stay informed about: Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy 

According to beecrofter <beecrofter RemoveThis @yahoo.com>:

> > Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them
> > to use smaller/cheaper batteries too.

> Sounds like a good community to have a way station with a few solar
> panels and a few group owned batteries on charge, swap out your
> discharged battery for a charged one along the way. Wouldn't need to
> be any bigger than an outhouse.

Amish communitees are very well spread out. They're not towns,
they're farming regions with a mixture of Amish and non-Amish
farmers. In many cases the non-Amish outnumber the Amish
by a substantial margin.

In order to be useful, "way stations" would have to be impractically
numerous
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
 >> Stay informed about: Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy 

It seems like LED and a solarpanel is a great solution,and in these days
when environmental problems is discussed worldwide,it would definitely be a
positive solution for that too.
No emissions and also it will not need much maintenance so it would be a
great solution.
Solarpanels has also been improved and still are,next generation solarpanels
will be much more efficient then todays.
What I've heard they work really fine.
Regards

<alvinamorey.TakeThisOut@notmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:6ch5j356uk99qbhtqt108k8ookr3muu3gb@4ax.com...
>I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
> their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
> which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
> neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
> of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
> wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
> a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.
>
> 1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
> hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
> would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.
>
> 2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
> doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
> would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
> alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
> from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
> anyone ever done anything like this?
>
> I'm having fun with this project....
>
> Alvin
>
 >> Stay informed about: Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy 

alvinamorey.TakeThisOut@notmail.com wrote:
> I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
> their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
> which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
> neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
> of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
> wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
> a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.
>
> 1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
> hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
> would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.
>
> 2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
> doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
> would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
> alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
> from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
> anyone ever done anything like this?
>
> I'm having fun with this project....
>
> Alvin
>

The Amish are fascinating, and there is an excellent website about the
"Plain People".

http://www.800padutch.com/amish.shtml

Jeff DeWitt
 >> Stay informed about: Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy 

According to Steve Barker <ichasetrains.DeleteThis@not.yahoo.com>:
> I found it amusing when we visited amish country in Indiana. We went to
> their modern type general store that has gas lights and sunpipes and
> skylights. So far so good. Then, all around the perimeter of the store
> are modern refrigerator cases. What runs them??? A/C power made from
> inverters off a bank of about 100 car batteries being charged by the
> thermoking reefer unit out on the semi trailer. I goes out to look. Upon
> this thermoking unit are 6, Yes count them SIX, high output General motors
> style alternators to charge this bank of batteries. A huge 500 gallon
> diesel tank stands near by to feed this fuel monster. Now how is that being
> disconnected from society??? It's rediculous to burn all that diesel when
> all he'd have to do it hook up to the electricty.

Nobody said it has to be entirely logical. Or at least to us.

Most religions have a number of things in them that seem more than
a trifle inconsistent or counter-productive or varies in surprising
ways from one place to another. Or at least to outsiders who don't
understand what the point of the whole thing is.

This will demystify it considerably:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish#Modern_technology

There are many things to admire in their way of life. We could all
do with a little less advertising for example. I just don't like some
of the other facets...
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
 >> Stay informed about: Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy 

According to <scott21230.RemoveThis@gmail.com>:
> Actually the solar panels are probably only a reasonable idea if they
> park the buggy outside, I would think.

Given how long their trips take, and mostly during the day at that
where lighting isn't necessary, it's probably not an issue.

Someone would have to do some simple calculations with specs
on candidate components to figure out how much daylight they'd
need.

Can't be too impractical, otherwise, solar lights wouldn't work -
usually capable of 8 hours or so using only a square inch or
two of collector and a single AA battery. Scale it up to a 4x4
or larger collector, and reasonably well chosen LED lights, I'm
sure it'd work quite well. Except after long period of truly
abysmal weather.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
 >> Stay informed about: Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy 

salty.RemoveThis@dog.com wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 18:35:48 -0500, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt.RemoveThis@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>alvinamorey@notmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>I live near an Amish community. They are required to use lights on
>>>their horse drawn buggies at night. They use 12V marine batteries
>>>which last about 7 to 10 hours. Then they have the non-Amish
>>>neighbors charge them, or use a gas generator. I was talking to one
>>>of them and he said he would like to connect a car alternator to the
>>>wheels. I told him that seems doable. That got me thinking. Wiring
>>>a delco with built in regulator is easy. There are two problems.
>>>
>>>1. Mounting it so a pulley can be connected to the wooden spoke wheel
>>>hub. I can sort of see a means to attach a belt pulley, but the belt
>>>would have to connect to a shaft or it would be outside too far.
>>>
>>>2. Alternators will not charge until they reach a specific RPM. I
>>>doubt the buggy wheels would reach that. This means a gear assembly
>>>would be needed to increase the rpm. I also heard that some tractor
>>>alternators charge at a lower RPM, so I have to check into that.
>>>
>>>Anyone have any suggestions? What could I steal a simple gear unit
>>>from? How do I attach a pulley to a wooden hub, spoke wheel? Has
>>>anyone ever done anything like this?
>>>
>>>I'm having fun with this project....
>>>
>>>Alvin
>>>
>>
>>The Amish are fascinating, and there is an excellent website about the
>>"Plain People".
>>
>>http://www.800padutch.com/amish.shtml
>>
>>Jeff DeWitt
>
>
> Yeah, but don't overlook the really negative things about them. It's not at all
> pretty and quaint. It's a cult. Women and children are "property" and the
> accepted way to communicate with them is to beat them. Nice.
>
>
>
You could say the same thing about Islam...

Jeff DeWitt
 >> Stay informed about: Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy 

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 15:37:04 -0000, clewis.DeleteThis@nortelnetworks.com (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

>According to HerHusband <unknown.DeleteThis@unknown.com>:
>
>> I don't know much about the Amish, but I thought the idea was to avoid
>> modern technology? Couldn't they use lanterns as was done before electrical
>> lights were available?
>
>It's not so much an avoidance of "modern technology", it's more of
>an avoidance of depending on outside resources. Electricity isn't
>as much of an issue as being connected to the grid is. Tho, it
>depends on "which" Amish you're talking about. There are different
>levels of interpretation, and different levels of willingness to
>adapt to the modern world.
>
>Eg: they won't have a car. But most won't turn down a ride in one
>if it's going somewhere they need to go, and some aren't shy about
>asking for a ride
>
>Eg: many Amish in the US came from Canada (south west Ontario) when
>Canada imposed refrigeration requirements on dairy production. When the
>corresponding US states imposed refrigeration, some Amish moved either
>to states that didn't require it, or to Mexico. Others adapted and
>stayed where they are. Most Amish, for example, refuse to have a
>telephone. But as an example of "modern compromise", some will have an
>outdoor phone for calls pertaining to their dairy operation.
>
>My wife and her sister bed-and-breakfasted with Pennsylvania
>Amish farm families, and recounted the amusing incident where
>the Amish family's teenage daughter had to stand outside in the rain
>at the "dairy phone" to talk to one of her friends.
>
>I thought of bicycle generators (car-size alternators or generators
>will sometimes present too much load to the available horse power
>too.
>
>However, I don't think they'd be terribly effective long-term
>solutions. They'd always be diddling with them. Something
>simple and mostly maintenance free is better.
>
>Perhaps LED lights and a smallish solar panel. Should allow them
>to use smaller/cheaper batteries too.

You are pretty much correct about the more modern Amish. My neighbors
do have an outdoor phone in a small shed and are connected to an
answering service. Some of them have small electric generators and
will power up a standard trouble light when they shoe their horses
after dark. Their local sawmill is a huge diesel powered engine with
shafts and pulleys all over the place to power different devices.
They can drive a tractor, but not own one. They can not drive a car,
but can ride in them, and often do. I give them rides quite often. I
charge their batteries too. They are nice people. I find their
"rules" a little strange at times, but I accept them for what they
are. For example, they can not be hooked to the "grid" (electric
service), but they can use most anything electric if it connects to a
generator. My neighbor even has an electric razor and shaves in the
barn when his generator is running, which is used to run an air
compressor connected to a 500gallon LP tank. That air is used to pull
water from their community well. They have indoor plumbing, but only
cold water. They have to heat it on an outdoor wood burner, or on
their kitchen wood stove. They use gasoline or LP for their generator
or compressor, but can not have an LP cook stove or furnace. They can
smoke cigars, but not cigarettes.

You get the picture......

Like I said, they are nice people, but do things in strange ways.
Yet, who am I to say. At least they dont have an electric bill, and
the whole community shares the phone bill, and that is a good thing.

Therefore, an alternator or solar panels would be acceptable in THIS
community, but not others.

I enjoy their company and they love to come over and watch movies with
me. Of course a few of their younger kids have found ways to hide
portable DVD players which they power off their 12V battery until dad
finds out why the battery is dead......

Alvin
 >> Stay informed about: Connecting an Alternator to horse drawn buggy