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External
Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 88
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:25 pm
Post subject: Code 35 on Grand Am
Archived from groups: alt>autos>gm (more info?)
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1992 Grand Am
2.3L Quad Four VIN 3
Automatic
Air conditioning
In the nine or so years I've owned this machine not once has there ever been
a check engine light occurrence. Now that it's on the market the light
comes on after initial start and a few minutes of idle time. At the same
instant the light shows up the cooling fan starts even though coolant
temperature is nowhere near what it takes to start the fan. Probed the ECM
and retrieved code 35 (idle speed error).
There are no other performance issues with the engine. It runs just fine
when driven.
Replaced the coolant sensor thinking that it was surely the culprit. No
change.
Read the voltage on the IAT sensor and noted that it was half what the
service manual said it should be. Replaced sensor. No change.
Read throttle position sensor voltage. It was dead on. Don't believe the
throttle plate or the linkage is sticking.
Checked canister purge solenoid for leakage. OK.
Disconnected purge solenoid. Made no change.
Checked vacuum side of fuel regulator. Tight.
Made sure the HVAC control unit input to the computer wasn't asking for AC.
It was not.
Have cleaned the IAC but did not replace it. It's a little pricey compared
to the other sensors just replaced.
The IAC and the computer are my two top suspects at this time. Can you
think of anything else I can check before going down the road to replacing
them? |
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External
Since: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 189
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Code 35 on Grand Am [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Silver Surfer wrote:
>
> 1992 Grand Am
> 2.3L Quad Four VIN 3
> Automatic
> Air conditioning
>
> In the nine or so years I've owned this machine not once has there ever been
> a check engine light occurrence. Now that it's on the market the light
> comes on after initial start and a few minutes of idle time. At the same
> instant the light shows up the cooling fan starts even though coolant
> temperature is nowhere near what it takes to start the fan. Probed the ECM
> and retrieved code 35 (idle speed error).
>
> There are no other performance issues with the engine. It runs just fine
> when driven.
>
> Replaced the coolant sensor thinking that it was surely the culprit. No
> change.
>
> Read the voltage on the IAT sensor and noted that it was half what the
> service manual said it should be. Replaced sensor. No change.
>
> Read throttle position sensor voltage. It was dead on. Don't believe the
> throttle plate or the linkage is sticking.
>
> Checked canister purge solenoid for leakage. OK.
> Disconnected purge solenoid. Made no change.
>
> Checked vacuum side of fuel regulator. Tight.
>
> Made sure the HVAC control unit input to the computer wasn't asking for AC.
> It was not.
>
> Have cleaned the IAC but did not replace it. It's a little pricey compared
> to the other sensors just replaced.
>
> The IAC and the computer are my two top suspects at this time. Can you
> think of anything else I can check before going down the road to replacing
> them?
The fan coming on is a sign that the computer may have problems.
Check the ecu ground and plugs before replacment. |
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External
Since: May 02, 2004
Posts: 345
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:55 am
Post subject: Re: Code 35 on Grand Am [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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The fan comes on automatically with most fault codes.
"« Paul »" <"=?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul
=?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?="@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:43E2B096.73806238@houston.rr.com...
> Silver Surfer wrote:
>>
>> 1992 Grand Am
>> 2.3L Quad Four VIN 3
>> Automatic
>> Air conditioning
>>
>> In the nine or so years I've owned this machine not once has there ever
>> been
>> a check engine light occurrence. Now that it's on the market the light
>> comes on after initial start and a few minutes of idle time. At the same
>> instant the light shows up the cooling fan starts even though coolant
>> temperature is nowhere near what it takes to start the fan. Probed the
>> ECM
>> and retrieved code 35 (idle speed error).
>>
>> There are no other performance issues with the engine. It runs just fine
>> when driven.
>>
>> Replaced the coolant sensor thinking that it was surely the culprit. No
>> change.
>>
>> Read the voltage on the IAT sensor and noted that it was half what the
>> service manual said it should be. Replaced sensor. No change.
>>
>> Read throttle position sensor voltage. It was dead on. Don't believe
>> the
>> throttle plate or the linkage is sticking.
>>
>> Checked canister purge solenoid for leakage. OK.
>> Disconnected purge solenoid. Made no change.
>>
>> Checked vacuum side of fuel regulator. Tight.
>>
>> Made sure the HVAC control unit input to the computer wasn't asking for
>> AC.
>> It was not.
>>
>> Have cleaned the IAC but did not replace it. It's a little pricey
>> compared
>> to the other sensors just replaced.
>>
>> The IAC and the computer are my two top suspects at this time. Can you
>> think of anything else I can check before going down the road to
>> replacing
>> them?
>
> The fan coming on is a sign that the computer may have problems.
> Check the ecu ground and plugs before replacment. >> Stay informed about: Code 35 on Grand Am |
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External
Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 88
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:25 am
Post subject: Re: Code 35 on Grand Am [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I didn't know that. Thanks.
"Woody" <TheDuck.RemoveThis@pond.net> wrote in message
news:b2JEf.883$rL5.293@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> The fan comes on automatically with most fault codes.
>
>
> "« Paul »" <"=?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul
> =?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?="@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:43E2B096.73806238@houston.rr.com...
>> Silver Surfer wrote:
>>>
>>> 1992 Grand Am
>>> 2.3L Quad Four VIN 3
>>> Automatic
>>> Air conditioning
>>>
>>> In the nine or so years I've owned this machine not once has there ever
>>> been
>>> a check engine light occurrence. Now that it's on the market the light
>>> comes on after initial start and a few minutes of idle time. At the
>>> same
>>> instant the light shows up the cooling fan starts even though coolant
>>> temperature is nowhere near what it takes to start the fan. Probed the
>>> ECM
>>> and retrieved code 35 (idle speed error).
>>>
>>> There are no other performance issues with the engine. It runs just
>>> fine
>>> when driven.
>>>
>>> Replaced the coolant sensor thinking that it was surely the culprit. No
>>> change.
>>>
>>> Read the voltage on the IAT sensor and noted that it was half what the
>>> service manual said it should be. Replaced sensor. No change.
>>>
>>> Read throttle position sensor voltage. It was dead on. Don't believe
>>> the
>>> throttle plate or the linkage is sticking.
>>>
>>> Checked canister purge solenoid for leakage. OK.
>>> Disconnected purge solenoid. Made no change.
>>>
>>> Checked vacuum side of fuel regulator. Tight.
>>>
>>> Made sure the HVAC control unit input to the computer wasn't asking for
>>> AC.
>>> It was not.
>>>
>>> Have cleaned the IAC but did not replace it. It's a little pricey
>>> compared
>>> to the other sensors just replaced.
>>>
>>> The IAC and the computer are my two top suspects at this time. Can you
>>> think of anything else I can check before going down the road to
>>> replacing
>>> them?
>>
>> The fan coming on is a sign that the computer may have problems.
>> Check the ecu ground and plugs before replacment.
>
> >> Stay informed about: Code 35 on Grand Am |
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External
Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 88
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Code 35 on Grand Am [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Well, I've now flushed $100 down the toilet in trying to get rid of trouble
code 35. No luck at all.
Latest moves:
Replaced the computer with one from a nearby salvage yard. Exactly the same
results.
Replaced the IAC with a new one from Advance. Exactly the same results.
It seems to me that this code might be setting as soon as the ECM goes into
closed loop control mode. That's a guess on my part. When it does its
thing after warming up in PARK for a short time the engine speed does
suddenly drop off a little bit in conjunction with the check engine light
illuminating.
While driving the machine there is no check engine light at stops. Pull
into the garage and put it in park or neutral and the light quickly shows up
again.
There are no vacuum leaks anywhere that I can detect, but that doesn't mean
there isn't one lurking somewhere.
I'm at my wit's end at the moment. Could the oxygen sensor be causing this
behavior? It's less than a year old.
"Silver Surfer" <h.mcguffinspamouflage DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ecKdnd23_vNE6H7enZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>I didn't know that. Thanks.
>
> "Woody" <TheDuck DeleteThis @pond.net> wrote in message
> news:b2JEf.883$rL5.293@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>> The fan comes on automatically with most fault codes.
>>
>>
>> "« Paul »" <"=?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul
>> =?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?="@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:43E2B096.73806238@houston.rr.com...
>>> Silver Surfer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 1992 Grand Am
>>>> 2.3L Quad Four VIN 3
>>>> Automatic
>>>> Air conditioning
>>>>
>>>> In the nine or so years I've owned this machine not once has there ever
>>>> been
>>>> a check engine light occurrence. Now that it's on the market the light
>>>> comes on after initial start and a few minutes of idle time. At the
>>>> same
>>>> instant the light shows up the cooling fan starts even though coolant
>>>> temperature is nowhere near what it takes to start the fan. Probed the
>>>> ECM
>>>> and retrieved code 35 (idle speed error).
>>>>
>>>> There are no other performance issues with the engine. It runs just
>>>> fine
>>>> when driven.
>>>>
>>>> Replaced the coolant sensor thinking that it was surely the culprit.
>>>> No
>>>> change.
>>>>
>>>> Read the voltage on the IAT sensor and noted that it was half what the
>>>> service manual said it should be. Replaced sensor. No change.
>>>>
>>>> Read throttle position sensor voltage. It was dead on. Don't believe
>>>> the
>>>> throttle plate or the linkage is sticking.
>>>>
>>>> Checked canister purge solenoid for leakage. OK.
>>>> Disconnected purge solenoid. Made no change.
>>>>
>>>> Checked vacuum side of fuel regulator. Tight.
>>>>
>>>> Made sure the HVAC control unit input to the computer wasn't asking for
>>>> AC.
>>>> It was not.
>>>>
>>>> Have cleaned the IAC but did not replace it. It's a little pricey
>>>> compared
>>>> to the other sensors just replaced.
>>>>
>>>> The IAC and the computer are my two top suspects at this time. Can you
>>>> think of anything else I can check before going down the road to
>>>> replacing
>>>> them?
>>>
>>> The fan coming on is a sign that the computer may have problems.
>>> Check the ecu ground and plugs before replacment.
>>
>>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Code 35 on Grand Am |
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External
Since: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 669
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Code 35 on Grand Am [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Silver Surfer" <h.mcguffinspamouflage DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:dtednW-PRv8FTX7enZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Well, I've now flushed $100 down the toilet in trying to get rid of
trouble
> code 35. No luck at all.
>
Why not take it to the dealer or to a garage? Throwing parts at a car is
costly. The computers seldom fail and should always be a last resort, but
you're stuck with it now because it's an electronic part.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE DeleteThis @alltel.net >> Stay informed about: Code 35 on Grand Am |
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External
Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 88
|
(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Code 35 on Grand Am [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Let me admit that the thought of taking this machine to a pro has been
creeping around the darkest corners of my mind. However, doing so would be
a terrible blow to my self-esteem. My mindset is that I should be able to
eventually fix almost anything even though "professional automotive
technician" doesn't show up anywhere on my resume.
Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry movie character once said on screen that, "A
man's got to know his limitations," or words to that effect. Perhaps I've
reached my limits on this thing, but I'm not giving up yet.
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE RemoveThis @alltel.net> wrote in message
news:64f41$43e3e525$452896b0$10156@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "Silver Surfer" <h.mcguffinspamouflage RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:dtednW-PRv8FTX7enZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>> Well, I've now flushed $100 down the toilet in trying to get rid of
> trouble
>> code 35. No luck at all.
>>
>
> Why not take it to the dealer or to a garage? Throwing parts at a car is
> costly. The computers seldom fail and should always be a last resort, but
> you're stuck with it now because it's an electronic part.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> mmarlowREMOVE RemoveThis @alltel.net
>
> >> Stay informed about: Code 35 on Grand Am |
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External
Since: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 669
|
(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Code 35 on Grand Am [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Silver Surfer" <h.mcguffinspamouflage.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:YdudnQbGsaQtan7eRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> Let me admit that the thought of taking this machine to a pro has been
> creeping around the darkest corners of my mind. However, doing so would
be
> a terrible blow to my self-esteem. My mindset is that I should be able to
> eventually fix almost anything even though "professional automotive
> technician" doesn't show up anywhere on my resume.
>
> Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry movie character once said on screen that, "A
> man's got to know his limitations," or words to that effect. Perhaps I've
> reached my limits on this thing, but I'm not giving up yet.
>
Well, I sure as hell understand that. But... I have to admit, it doesn't
take me too long before I swallow my pride and take a walk over to see my
neighbor who is a Chevy mechanic. Or sometimes pull up to the back door of
the dealership for a little free look and advice from him or his associates
at work. I'm proud, but I'm also lazy. Don't like to spend any more time
on these things than I have to.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE.RemoveThis@alltel.net >> Stay informed about: Code 35 on Grand Am |
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External
Since: Apr 08, 2005
Posts: 14
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Code 35 on Grand Am [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Silver Surfer" <h.mcguffinspamouflage.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:YdudnQbGsaQtan7eRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
> Let me admit that the thought of taking this machine to a pro has been
> creeping around the darkest corners of my mind. However, doing so would
> be a terrible blow to my self-esteem. My mindset is that I should be able
> to eventually fix almost anything even though "professional automotive
> technician" doesn't show up anywhere on my resume.
>
> Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry movie character once said on screen that, "A
> man's got to know his limitations," or words to that effect. Perhaps I've
> reached my limits on this thing, but I'm not giving up yet.
>
> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE.TakeThisOut@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:64f41$43e3e525$452896b0$10156@ALLTEL.NET...
>>
>> "Silver Surfer" <h.mcguffinspamouflage.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:dtednW-PRv8FTX7enZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>>> Well, I've now flushed $100 down the toilet in trying to get rid of
>> trouble
>>> code 35. No luck at all.
>>>
>>
>> Why not take it to the dealer or to a garage? Throwing parts at a car is
>> costly. The computers seldom fail and should always be a last resort,
>> but
>> you're stuck with it now because it's an electronic part.
>>
>> --
>>
>> -Mike-
>> mmarlowREMOVE.TakeThisOut@alltel.net
>>
>>
>
>
I didn't see your original post, just these follow-ups. Is the engine idle
speed way too high when it's cold? I seem to get that impression from these
follow-ups. I had a '92 Olds Cutlass with the dreaded 3.4L DOHC V6 that did
this and continually set the 35 code. No vacuum leaks that I could find,
tried a new IAC motor, etc. Once when I had the rubber duct off the air
plenum inlet, it was sitting there running about 2200 rpm with the engine
cold. I took a cardboard drink coaster and completely plugged the intake,
and the engine still ran at 1500 rpm. Says I to myself, "There is most
assuredly air getting in this engine somewhere, self." Turned out the
intake gasket between the upper plenum and the lower intake was cracked in
three places. When the engine warmed up, (and always just about the same
time that it went into closed loop on my scanner), metal expansion closed
up the leak. Hope this helps in some way. Good luck.
Garrett Fulton >> Stay informed about: Code 35 on Grand Am |
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External
Since: Jan 17, 2004
Posts: 88
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Code 35 on Grand Am [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Actually the idle sounds like the engine is running just about the right
speed before it goes into closed loop. It drops down noticeably though as
soon as closed loop initiates. But thanks for the input. Your experience
and findings make perfect sense, and I may yet find that air leakage is
somehow plaguing my machine.
"gfulton" <lbfulton DeleteThis @alltel.net> wrote in message
news:5ba9$43e41282$a22763aa$31780@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "Silver Surfer" <h.mcguffinspamouflage DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:YdudnQbGsaQtan7eRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
>> Let me admit that the thought of taking this machine to a pro has been
>> creeping around the darkest corners of my mind. However, doing so would
>> be a terrible blow to my self-esteem. My mindset is that I should be
>> able to eventually fix almost anything even though "professional
>> automotive technician" doesn't show up anywhere on my resume.
>>
>> Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry movie character once said on screen that, "A
>> man's got to know his limitations," or words to that effect. Perhaps
>> I've reached my limits on this thing, but I'm not giving up yet.
>>
>> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE DeleteThis @alltel.net> wrote in message
>> news:64f41$43e3e525$452896b0$10156@ALLTEL.NET...
>>>
>>> "Silver Surfer" <h.mcguffinspamouflage DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:dtednW-PRv8FTX7enZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>> Well, I've now flushed $100 down the toilet in trying to get rid of
>>> trouble
>>>> code 35. No luck at all.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why not take it to the dealer or to a garage? Throwing parts at a car
>>> is
>>> costly. The computers seldom fail and should always be a last resort,
>>> but
>>> you're stuck with it now because it's an electronic part.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> -Mike-
>>> mmarlowREMOVE DeleteThis @alltel.net
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> I didn't see your original post, just these follow-ups. Is the engine
> idle speed way too high when it's cold? I seem to get that impression
> from these follow-ups. I had a '92 Olds Cutlass with the dreaded 3.4L
> DOHC V6 that did this and continually set the 35 code. No vacuum leaks
> that I could find, tried a new IAC motor, etc. Once when I had the
> rubber duct off the air plenum inlet, it was sitting there running about
> 2200 rpm with the engine cold. I took a cardboard drink coaster and
> completely plugged the intake, and the engine still ran at 1500 rpm. Says
> I to myself, "There is most assuredly air getting in this engine
> somewhere, self." Turned out the intake gasket between the upper plenum
> and the lower intake was cracked in three places. When the engine warmed
> up, (and always just about the same time that it went into closed loop on
> my scanner), metal expansion closed up the leak. Hope this helps in some
> way. Good luck.
>
> Garrett Fulton
> >> Stay informed about: Code 35 on Grand Am |
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External
Since: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 189
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:55 am
Post subject: Re: Code 35 on Grand Am [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Silver Surfer wrote:
>
> Actually the idle sounds like the engine is running just about the right
> speed before it goes into closed loop. It drops down noticeably though as
> soon as closed loop initiates. But thanks for the input. Your experience
> and findings make perfect sense, and I may yet find that air leakage is
> somehow plaguing my machine.
IIRC, 200 rpm above or below the commanded rpm for X seconds will
set a code 35. As another poster suggested, look for vac leaks.
Does the engine have an egr system?
Check the PCV operation, also.
The ecu uses the gear selector indicator light pcb to determine
gear selection. If (when) the solder joints go bad, the car will exhibit
undulating idle, stalls at idle, and sometimes lock the doors. >> Stay informed about: Code 35 on Grand Am |
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External
Since: Feb 05, 2006
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Code 35 on Grand Am [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Now that's an interesting idea, but it will be about a week before I can
check it out. I'm here in North Carolina visiting my daughter. Will put
your theory to the test next week. Thanks for giving my problem some
thought.
"Here we go Steelers, here we go."
"« Paul »" <"=?x-user-defined?Q?=AB?= Paul
=?x-user-defined?Q?=BB?="@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:43E6D582.A618B6D4@houston.rr.com...
> Silver Surfer wrote:
>>
>> Actually the idle sounds like the engine is running just about the right
>> speed before it goes into closed loop. It drops down noticeably though
>> as
>> soon as closed loop initiates. But thanks for the input. Your
>> experience
>> and findings make perfect sense, and I may yet find that air leakage is
>> somehow plaguing my machine.
>
> IIRC, 200 rpm above or below the commanded rpm for X seconds will
> set a code 35. As another poster suggested, look for vac leaks.
> Does the engine have an egr system?
> Check the PCV operation, also.
> The ecu uses the gear selector indicator light pcb to determine
> gear selection. If (when) the solder joints go bad, the car will exhibit
> undulating idle, stalls at idle, and sometimes lock the doors. >> Stay informed about: Code 35 on Grand Am |
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