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Since: Jan 10, 2007
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:16 pm
Post subject: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable?
Archived from groups: alt>autos>peugeot (more info?)
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Hi Folks,
I've not been on the group for a while - my beloved 405 has been
behaving! Unfortunately it's now starting to get to the stage where I'm
trying to decide whether it's sensible to keep going or not - the bonus
is that it means that I'm learning a fair bit more about DIY maintenance...
I've done things with the heater matrix and electronics before by
myself (well, with the help of a Haynes manual) but never serious
tinkering under the bonnet. I'm reasonably competent mechanically, and
probably have most of the tools I might need handy.
I'm having trouble starting the car at the moment - engine sounds
as if it is not firing on all cylinders for the first minute or two and
there is some white smoke, then all is well. I'm told this is a problem
with glowplugs, and I've seen them for sale in my local parts shop very
cheaply. Question is, will I be able to fit them myself or am I better
off paying the garage an hour or two of labour (and of course the
slightly higher parts cost) to sort it out for me?
Any advice would be welcomed. The car is a 1.9 TD, 1994 'Hunter'
model with a big intercooler sat on top of the engine.
Many thanks,
Ben
--
Ben Panter, Edinburgh, UK.
Email false, http://www.benpanter.co.uk
or you could try ben at ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
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External
Since: Jan 05, 2007
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ben, I too have the selfsame problem and have bought glow plugs on
Ebay.
The only real tool that I know I am going to need is a 12mm 1/2" drive
long reach socket to get between the pipework and down behind the
alternator.
I do not see it being too big of a problem, I have done similar with a
Citroen van engine and it went well afterwards.
Go for it, the garage charges are far too high for the majority,
Regards, Peter. |
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External
Since: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 293
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:29 am
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"petercharlesfagg" <peterfagg1947 RemoveThis @btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1168472131.373037.25410@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Ben, I too have the selfsame problem and have bought glow plugs on
> Ebay.
>
> The only real tool that I know I am going to need is a 12mm 1/2" drive
> long reach socket to get between the pipework and down behind the
> alternator.
>
> I do not see it being too big of a problem, I have done similar with a
> Citroen van engine and it went well afterwards.
>
> Go for it, the garage charges are far too high for the majority,
>
> Regards, Peter.
It is a relatively easy job, but fiddly, as it is difficult to get to the
one behind the injection pump.
It might be easier to move the intercooler out of the way.
You will need an 8mm socket to undo the terminal nuts, and a 12mm open ended
or ring spanner to undo the heater plug. A long reach socket might also be
useful.
When buying the plugs, make sure you get the ones for the turbo engine as
they are rated for that use, those for the non turbo look the same but will
not last.
Check the details on www.parts4peugeot.com >> Stay informed about: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? |
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External
Since: Jan 10, 2007
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:17 am
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Brian wrote:
> "petercharlesfagg" <peterfagg1947 RemoveThis @btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:1168472131.373037.25410@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> Ben, I too have the selfsame problem and have bought glow plugs on
>> Ebay.
>>
>> The only real tool that I know I am going to need is a 12mm 1/2" drive
>> long reach socket to get between the pipework and down behind the
>> alternator.
>>
>> I do not see it being too big of a problem, I have done similar with a
>> Citroen van engine and it went well afterwards.
>>
>> Go for it, the garage charges are far too high for the majority,
>>
>> Regards, Peter.
>
> It is a relatively easy job, but fiddly, as it is difficult to get to the
> one behind the injection pump.
> It might be easier to move the intercooler out of the way.
> You will need an 8mm socket to undo the terminal nuts, and a 12mm open ended
> or ring spanner to undo the heater plug. A long reach socket might also be
> useful.
> When buying the plugs, make sure you get the ones for the turbo engine as
> they are rated for that use, those for the non turbo look the same but will
> not last.
> Check the details on www.parts4peugeot.com
Brain, Peter, thanks for that.
In fact since the car still does start I suspect that it's only one or
perhaps two that have gone - although sod's law suggests that it will be
the most fiddly one. I have a multimeter, and thought that I might be
able to tell which one had gone with a simple circuit integrity test
over each plug. We'll see how I get on.
Thanks again,
Ben
--
Ben Panter, Edinburgh, UK.
Email false, http://www.benpanter.co.uk
or you could try ben at ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Stay informed about: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? |
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External
Since: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 293
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ben Panter" <me.DeleteThis@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:50mh63F1ee2vlU1@mid.individual.net...
> Brian wrote:
> > "petercharlesfagg" <peterfagg1947.DeleteThis@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> > news:1168472131.373037.25410@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >> Ben, I too have the selfsame problem and have bought glow plugs on
> >> Ebay.
> >>
> >> The only real tool that I know I am going to need is a 12mm 1/2" drive
> >> long reach socket to get between the pipework and down behind the
> >> alternator.
> >>
> >> I do not see it being too big of a problem, I have done similar with a
> >> Citroen van engine and it went well afterwards.
> >>
> >> Go for it, the garage charges are far too high for the majority,
> >>
> >> Regards, Peter.
> >
> > It is a relatively easy job, but fiddly, as it is difficult to get to
the
> > one behind the injection pump.
> > It might be easier to move the intercooler out of the way.
> > You will need an 8mm socket to undo the terminal nuts, and a 12mm open
ended
> > or ring spanner to undo the heater plug. A long reach socket might also
be
> > useful.
> > When buying the plugs, make sure you get the ones for the turbo engine
as
> > they are rated for that use, those for the non turbo look the same but
will
> > not last.
> > Check the details on www.parts4peugeot.com
>
> Brain, Peter, thanks for that.
>
> In fact since the car still does start I suspect that it's only one or
> perhaps two that have gone - although sod's law suggests that it will be
> the most fiddly one. I have a multimeter, and thought that I might be
> able to tell which one had gone with a simple circuit integrity test
> over each plug. We'll see how I get on.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Ben
>
All you need to do is disconnect the wire from all four plugs, then test the
resistance of each in turn. The dead ones will show open circuit, the good
ones about 4 ohms I think.
You might just be lucky and not have to change the difficult one.
What usually happens to me is that one of the 8mm nuts falls down the front
of the engine somewhere, to dissapear without trace. A bit of grease in the
socket helps to prevent this. >> Stay informed about: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? |
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External
Since: Feb 04, 2006
Posts: 103
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ben Panter wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I've not been on the group for a while - my beloved 405 has been
> behaving! Unfortunately it's now starting to get to the stage where I'm
> trying to decide whether it's sensible to keep going or not - the bonus
> is that it means that I'm learning a fair bit more about DIY maintenance...
>
> I've done things with the heater matrix and electronics before by
> myself (well, with the help of a Haynes manual) but never serious
> tinkering under the bonnet. I'm reasonably competent mechanically, and
> probably have most of the tools I might need handy.
>
> I'm having trouble starting the car at the moment - engine sounds as
> if it is not firing on all cylinders for the first minute or two and
> there is some white smoke, then all is well. I'm told this is a problem
> with glowplugs, and I've seen them for sale in my local parts shop very
> cheaply. Question is, will I be able to fit them myself or am I better
> off paying the garage an hour or two of labour (and of course the
> slightly higher parts cost) to sort it out for me?
>
> Any advice would be welcomed. The car is a 1.9 TD, 1994 'Hunter'
> model with a big intercooler sat on top of the engine.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Ben
Every easy to do.just take your time and dont cross the threads. if poss
do it by hand untill it gets tight then use a spaner or a good socket.
chris addlestone surrey. >> Stay informed about: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? |
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External
Since: Sep 20, 2006
Posts: 25
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ben Panter wrote:
> I'm having trouble starting the car at the moment - engine sounds as
> if it is not firing on all cylinders for the first minute or two and
> there is some white smoke, then all is well. I'm told this is a problem
> with glowplugs, and I've seen them for sale in my local parts shop very
> cheaply. Question is, will I be able to fit them myself or am I better
> off paying the garage an hour or two of labour (and of course the
> slightly higher parts cost) to sort it out for me?
>
> Any advice would be welcomed. The car is a 1.9 TD, 1994 'Hunter'
> model with a big intercooler sat on top of the engine.
I've done it on both the XUD non-turbo (309) and turbo (Citroen ZX), and
I don't do much myself. Definitely get the turbo-rated ones (~50% more
IIRC).
Do check them first, and also check the pre-heater timing works OK (head
under the bonnet, listen for the click when the glowplugs light goes
out) and that you can see 12V at each plug.
Chris
--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with btinternet dot com >> Stay informed about: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? |
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External
Since: Jun 01, 2006
Posts: 31
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:37 am
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Brian" <blecnospam RemoveThis @tesco.net> wrote in message
news:o%pph.38721$v4.4193@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Ben Panter" <me RemoveThis @privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:50mh63F1ee2vlU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Brian wrote:
>> > "petercharlesfagg" <peterfagg1947 RemoveThis @btinternet.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1168472131.373037.25410@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> >> Ben, I too have the selfsame problem and have bought glow plugs on
>> >> Ebay.
>> >>
>> >> The only real tool that I know I am going to need is a 12mm 1/2" drive
>> >> long reach socket to get between the pipework and down behind the
>> >> alternator.
>> >>
>> >> I do not see it being too big of a problem, I have done similar with a
>> >> Citroen van engine and it went well afterwards.
>> >>
>> >> Go for it, the garage charges are far too high for the majority,
>> >>
>> >> Regards, Peter.
>> >
>> > It is a relatively easy job, but fiddly, as it is difficult to get to
> the
>> > one behind the injection pump.
>> > It might be easier to move the intercooler out of the way.
>> > You will need an 8mm socket to undo the terminal nuts, and a 12mm open
> ended
>> > or ring spanner to undo the heater plug. A long reach socket might also
> be
>> > useful.
>> > When buying the plugs, make sure you get the ones for the turbo engine
> as
>> > they are rated for that use, those for the non turbo look the same but
> will
>> > not last.
>> > Check the details on www.parts4peugeot.com
>>
>> Brain, Peter, thanks for that.
>>
>> In fact since the car still does start I suspect that it's only one or
>> perhaps two that have gone - although sod's law suggests that it will be
>> the most fiddly one. I have a multimeter, and thought that I might be
>> able to tell which one had gone with a simple circuit integrity test
>> over each plug. We'll see how I get on.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>>
>> Ben
>>
>
> All you need to do is disconnect the wire from all four plugs, then test
> the
> resistance of each in turn. The dead ones will show open circuit, the good
> ones about 4 ohms I think.
> You might just be lucky and not have to change the difficult one.
> What usually happens to me is that one of the 8mm nuts falls down the
> front
> of the engine somewhere, to dissapear without trace. A bit of grease in
> the
> socket helps to prevent this.
This is contrary to my glow plug experience, which suggests they can fail
open/short/partialy-short circuit and their cold resistance is way less than
1 Ohm and therefore difficult to diagnose with an average AVO meter.
Try your meter on a new one (having zeroed it) that should give a definitive
idea of their cold resistance.
You may be lucky and find one O/C but In any case it's usually a better idea
to change these things in 4s for obvious reasons.
My own experience also suggests that calling the one behind the pump - 'A
bit fiddly' is an understatement and well worth paying someone who knows
what they're doing.
djimbo.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Stay informed about: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? |
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External
Since: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 293
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> This is contrary to my glow plug experience, which suggests they can fail
> open/short/partialy-short circuit and their cold resistance is way less
than
> 1 Ohm and therefore difficult to diagnose with an average AVO meter.
> Try your meter on a new one (having zeroed it) that should give a
definitive
> idea of their cold resistance.
> You may be lucky and find one O/C but In any case it's usually a better
idea
> to change these things in 4s for obvious reasons.
> My own experience also suggests that calling the one behind the pump - 'A
> bit fiddly' is an understatement and well worth paying someone who knows
> what they're doing.
>
> djimbo.
>
OK I stand corrected on the resistance. Just checked a new one for a 1.9TD
and it measures 0.9 ohm.
I also checked one from a 1.5D (106) and that measured 1.6 ohm.
To date, all the failed plugs I have experienced have been open circuit.
It is probably sensible to replace all four, not as if they cost a fortune,
providing you don't get them from Mr Peugeot, or ask him to fit them.
I have always managed to do the difficult one myself, but is it difficult to
get to. The obvious thing to do is to change the other three, and see if it
cures the problem. >> Stay informed about: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? |
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External
Since: Jan 10, 2007
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Brian wrote:
>> This is contrary to my glow plug experience, which suggests they can fail
>> open/short/partialy-short circuit and their cold resistance is way less
> than
>> 1 Ohm and therefore difficult to diagnose with an average AVO meter.
>> Try your meter on a new one (having zeroed it) that should give a
> definitive
>> idea of their cold resistance.
>> You may be lucky and find one O/C but In any case it's usually a better
> idea
>> to change these things in 4s for obvious reasons.
>> My own experience also suggests that calling the one behind the pump - 'A
>> bit fiddly' is an understatement and well worth paying someone who knows
>> what they're doing.
>>
>> djimbo.
>>
>
> OK I stand corrected on the resistance. Just checked a new one for a 1.9TD
> and it measures 0.9 ohm.
> I also checked one from a 1.5D (106) and that measured 1.6 ohm.
>
> To date, all the failed plugs I have experienced have been open circuit.
>
> It is probably sensible to replace all four, not as if they cost a fortune,
> providing you don't get them from Mr Peugeot, or ask him to fit them.
> I have always managed to do the difficult one myself, but is it difficult to
> get to. The obvious thing to do is to change the other three, and see if it
> cures the problem.
>
>
Yeup - that was pretty much what I planned to do. Waiting for the parts
to be delivered, will have a go when they arrive and let you know my
results.
Ben
--
Ben Panter, Edinburgh, UK.
Email false, http://www.benpanter.co.uk
or you could try ben at ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Stay informed about: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? |
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External
Since: Feb 04, 2006
Posts: 103
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ben Panter wrote:
> Brian wrote:
>>> This is contrary to my glow plug experience, which suggests they can
>>> fail
>>> open/short/partialy-short circuit and their cold resistance is way less
>> than
>>> 1 Ohm and therefore difficult to diagnose with an average AVO meter.
>>> Try your meter on a new one (having zeroed it) that should give a
>> definitive
>>> idea of their cold resistance.
>>> You may be lucky and find one O/C but In any case it's usually a better
>> idea
>>> to change these things in 4s for obvious reasons.
>>> My own experience also suggests that calling the one behind the pump
>>> - 'A
>>> bit fiddly' is an understatement and well worth paying someone who knows
>>> what they're doing.
>>>
>>> djimbo.
>>>
>>
>> OK I stand corrected on the resistance. Just checked a new one for a
>> 1.9TD
>> and it measures 0.9 ohm.
>> I also checked one from a 1.5D (106) and that measured 1.6 ohm.
>>
>> To date, all the failed plugs I have experienced have been open circuit.
>>
>> It is probably sensible to replace all four, not as if they cost a
>> fortune,
>> providing you don't get them from Mr Peugeot, or ask him to fit them.
>> I have always managed to do the difficult one myself, but is it
>> difficult to
>> get to. The obvious thing to do is to change the other three, and see
>> if it
>> cures the problem.
>>
>>
>
> Yeup - that was pretty much what I planned to do. Waiting for the parts
> to be delivered, will have a go when they arrive and let you know my
> results.
>
> Ben
>
Like i said before easy todo, but take your time and dont cross thread
them. do them by hand first then use a spanner to just tighten them
up.not too tight.. >> Stay informed about: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? |
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External
Since: Jan 10, 2007
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:47 am
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Just to finish the story on this one...
I had a go at changing the plugs, but in the end decided that I was far
better going via a garage. The two that were easy to get to were fine,
the two that were a nightmare to uncover needed the work. Call me a
wimp, but the MOT was due and the incremental cost on top of the service
wasn't too bad.
Thanks for all the help,
Ben
--
Ben Panter, Edinburgh, UK.
Email false, http://www.benpanter.co.uk
or you could try ben at ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Stay informed about: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? |
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External
Since: Jun 01, 2006
Posts: 31
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Ben Panter" <me RemoveThis @privacy.net> wrote in message
news:545aliF1v4hr5U1@mid.individual.net...
> Just to finish the story on this one...
>
> I had a go at changing the plugs, but in the end decided that I was far
> better going via a garage.
That was my feeling when I had the 405, you either have double jointed
finger and can work round blind corners in cramped little spaces or you
can't.
(I can't) but my hats off to those who can.
jim.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Stay informed about: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? |
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External
Since: Dec 27, 2006
Posts: 88
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:43:45 -0000, "djimbo" <me.DeleteThis@my.shadow.net> wrote:
>
>"Ben Panter" <me.DeleteThis@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:545aliF1v4hr5U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Just to finish the story on this one...
>>
>> I had a go at changing the plugs, but in the end decided that I was far
>> better going via a garage.
>
>That was my feeling when I had the 405, you either have double jointed
>finger and can work round blind corners in cramped little spaces or you
>can't.
>(I can't) but my hats off to those who can.
>
>jim.
All you need is a strong extendable magnet and a slightly bent 12mm
spanner. Oh and a bit of patience!! >> Stay informed about: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? |
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External
Since: Jun 01, 2006
Posts: 31
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Nigel" <ng.DeleteThis@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:lvrrt298g8sp8qfj1v85o4ct3gi94bv3eq@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:43:45 -0000, "djimbo" <me.DeleteThis@my.shadow.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Ben Panter" <me.DeleteThis@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>news:545aliF1v4hr5U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Just to finish the story on this one...
>>>
>>> I had a go at changing the plugs, but in the end decided that I was far
>>> better going via a garage.
>>
>>That was my feeling when I had the 405, you either have double jointed
>>finger and can work round blind corners in cramped little spaces or you
>>can't.
>>(I can't) but my hats off to those who can.
>>
>>jim.
> All you need is a strong extendable magnet and a slightly bent 12mm
> spanner. Oh and a bit of patience!!
and a flux capacitor?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Stay informed about: Changing Glow Plugs on a 405 TD - DIYable? |
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