Celica with no power

over here in australia our celica's of that year have the 3sge engine,
don't think they were released over in the US, but anyway you should be
able to check for error codes stored on the ECU, it should tell you
exactly what is the cuase of your power loss and stalling. (if you don't
know how to check for error codes e-mail me and i'll tell you)

I recently worked on my friends 87 celica who had simular problems.
The ECU error codes indicated that the Air Flow Meter and the O2 sensor
were cactus, and after replacing them and checking the timing which was
out 5 degrees) the car now runs better then ever. Not to mention the
huge increase in fuel economy (780Km from a full tank of petrol is
amazingly good!)


John F wrote:
 > My 1988 Celica has no power and stalls when the accelerator is pressed down.
 > It starts fairly easily and the engine can be revved up in park or neutral.
 > If you put it in drive and press down on the accelerator it stalls. If you
 > put it in drive and do not press down the accelerator it will move ahead
 > very slowly. I would really appreciate any help in diagnosing this problem
 >
 > I have replaced the ignition wires and fuel filter. It started one night
 > when my son drove it to work. It ran fine going to work, but had no power
 > after work.
 >
 > Thanks
 >
 > John
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Celica with no power 

I tried reading the codes. The check engine light does not come on when the
car is running. I put a jumper between T and E1 as my manual suggests and
the check engine light just blinks. It just continues to blink. Does this
mean it does not detect a malfunction?

I let the car idle to warm it up and it runs just fine. If I put my foot on
the brake, place it in drive, and give it a little gas, the engine starts to
run rough and loose power. Any opther suggestions?

John

"cd" <urantiacjd.RemoveThis@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:41dc0cd1@news.comindico.com.au...
 > over here in australia our celica's of that year have the 3sge engine,
 > don't think they were released over in the US, but anyway you should be
 > able to check for error codes stored on the ECU, it should tell you
 > exactly what is the cuase of your power loss and stalling. (if you don't
 > know how to check for error codes e-mail me and i'll tell you)
 >
 > I recently worked on my friends 87 celica who had simular problems.
 > The ECU error codes indicated that the Air Flow Meter and the O2 sensor
 > were cactus, and after replacing them and checking the timing which was
 > out 5 degrees) the car now runs better then ever. Not to mention the huge
 > increase in fuel economy (780Km from a full tank of petrol is amazingly
 > good!)
 >
 >
 > John F wrote:
  >> My 1988 Celica has no power and stalls when the accelerator is pressed
  >> down. It starts fairly easily and the engine can be revved up in park or
  >> neutral. If you put it in drive and press down on the accelerator it
  >> stalls. If you put it in drive and do not press down the accelerator it
  >> will move ahead very slowly. I would really appreciate any help in
  >> diagnosing this problem
  >>
  >> I have replaced the ignition wires and fuel filter. It started one night
  >> when my son drove it to work. It ran fine going to work, but had no
  >> power after work.
  >>
  >> Thanks
  >>
  >> John
  >><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Celica with no power 

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 15:50:43 +0000, cd wrote:

 > over here in australia our celica's of that year have the 3sge engine,
 > don't think they were released over in the US, but anyway you should be
 > able to check for error codes stored on the ECU, it should tell you
 > exactly what is the cuase of your power loss and stalling. (if you don't
 > know how to check for error codes e-mail me and i'll tell you)
 >
 > I recently worked on my friends 87 celica who had simular problems.
 > The ECU error codes indicated that the Air Flow Meter and the O2 sensor
 > were cactus, and after replacing them and checking the timing which was
 > out 5 degrees) the car now runs better then ever. Not to mention the
 > huge increase in fuel economy (780Km from a full tank of petrol is
 > amazingly good!)

"Were Cactus" (BSEG)! I like that! I have always tried to find how
different places say (use) slang differently. Cool...
Thanks, Bruce!

 >
 >
 > John F wrote:
  >> My 1988 Celica has no power and stalls when the accelerator is pressed down.
  >> It starts fairly easily and the engine can be revved up in park or neutral.
  >> If you put it in drive and press down on the accelerator it stalls. If you
  >> put it in drive and do not press down the accelerator it will move ahead
  >> very slowly. I would really appreciate any help in diagnosing this problem
  >>
  >> I have replaced the ignition wires and fuel filter. It started one night
  >> when my son drove it to work. It ran fine going to work, but had no power
  >> after work.
  >>
  >> Thanks
  >>
  >> John
  >>
  >><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Celica with no power 

John F wrote:
 > I tried reading the codes. The check engine light does not come on when the
 > car is running. I put a jumper between T and E1 as my manual suggests and
 > the check engine light just blinks. It just continues to blink. Does this
 > mean it does not detect a malfunction?

yep that means the computer isn't seeing anything wrong. So i guess that
narrows it down a little bit (it's none of your sensors or wiring)

check for cracked/unplugged vaccuum hoses like the other poster
suggested, evem hear for sucking air in the engine bay which can
sometimes lead to the culprit vaccuum hose.
 >
 > I let the car idle to warm it up and it runs just fine. If I put my foot on
 > the brake, place it in drive, and give it a little gas, the engine starts to
 > run rough and loose power. Any opther suggestions?
 >
 > John

Sounds like the problem is when the engine is under load, I'd almosat
say take it to an engine dynometer and see what your air/fuel is doing.

sorry can't really offer much help unless i see for myself, or if you
have any more abnormal observastions? (does it drive better when cold,
then once warmed up goes crap? does it start hunting at idle, or any
other clues?)

-Chris<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Celica with no power 

Use a propane to feed propane over
all of the vacuum hoses, connections.
Of course DON'T LIGHT the torch!
When you find a leak, keep checking
because there is likely more then one.
Prolly one big one, and several small ones.
Given the age of this car, I would suspect
every hose until proven good.
Hoses are cheap enough to replace, but do
one at a time. It is no fun if you remove 2 or more
and get lost. Been there done that, and still have
the mental scars!
Terry
 >> Stay informed about: Celica with no power 

<r2000swler.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1105040120.164608.60870@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
 > Use a propane to feed propane over
 > all of the vacuum hoses, connections.
 > Of course DON'T LIGHT the torch!
 > When you find a leak, keep checking
 > because there is likely more then one.
 > Prolly one big one, and several small ones.
 > Given the age of this car, I would suspect
 > every hose until proven good.
 > Hoses are cheap enough to replace, but do
 > one at a time. It is no fun if you remove 2 or more
 > and get lost. Been there done that, and still have
 > the mental scars!
 > Terry
 >
Better yet, first install a vacuum gauge to see if you have a vacuum leak or
not. A LOT safer than using propane! Carb cleaner is probably a little
(but not much) safer to use than propane to look for vacuum leaks.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Celica with no power 

I bought a vacuum gage and attached it to the manifold. When the car was
idling the vacuum was about 20. When I put the engine under load and gave
it some gas the vacuum dropped to zero. The operating instructions for the
vacuum gage said this is probably caused by a restricted exhaust system.
Does anyone have any other ideas about a cause?

John F.

<r2000swler.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1105040120.164608.60870@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
 > Use a propane to feed propane over
 > all of the vacuum hoses, connections.
 > Of course DON'T LIGHT the torch!
 > When you find a leak, keep checking
 > because there is likely more then one.
 > Prolly one big one, and several small ones.
 > Given the age of this car, I would suspect
 > every hose until proven good.
 > Hoses are cheap enough to replace, but do
 > one at a time. It is no fun if you remove 2 or more
 > and get lost. Been there done that, and still have
 > the mental scars!
 > Terry
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Celica with no power 

"John F" <johnboyflynn DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:H76dnZDT84G4h0LcRVn-3A@comcast.com...
 >I bought a vacuum gage and attached it to the manifold. When the car was
 >idling the vacuum was about 20. When I put the engine under load and gave
 >it some gas the vacuum dropped to zero. The operating instructions for the
 >vacuum gage said this is probably caused by a restricted exhaust system.
 > Does anyone have any other ideas about a cause?
 >
 > John F.
 >

Down and dirty seat-of the pants exhaust check is to start the car, place in
park or neutral with parking brake engaged and wheels blocked and have
someone place a wadded-up rag over the tailpipe. It should be very
difficult to hold the rag in place for any length of time and any leaks will
become more audible. If it is easy to hold the rag in place, then there is
probably some blockage upstream, like the catylytic converter or muffler.

The other check is to disconnect the exhaust pipe at the manifold and see
what you get.

--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply

 > <r2000swler DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:1105040120.164608.60870@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
  >> Use a propane to feed propane over
  >> all of the vacuum hoses, connections.
  >> Of course DON'T LIGHT the torch!
  >> When you find a leak, keep checking
  >> because there is likely more then one.
  >> Prolly one big one, and several small ones.
  >> Given the age of this car, I would suspect
  >> every hose until proven good.
  >> Hoses are cheap enough to replace, but do
  >> one at a time. It is no fun if you remove 2 or more
  >> and get lost. Been there done that, and still have
  >> the mental scars!
  >> Terry
  >>
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Celica with no power 

"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:

 >
 >"John F" <johnboyflynn RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
 >news:H76dnZDT84G4h0LcRVn-3A@comcast.com...
  >>I bought a vacuum gage and attached it to the manifold. When the car was
  >>idling the vacuum was about 20. When I put the engine under load and gave
  >>it some gas the vacuum dropped to zero. The operating instructions for the
  >>vacuum gage said this is probably caused by a restricted exhaust system.
  >> Does anyone have any other ideas about a cause?
  >>
  >> John F.
  >>
 >
 >Down and dirty seat-of the pants exhaust check is to start the car, place in
 >park or neutral with parking brake engaged and wheels blocked and have
 >someone place a wadded-up rag over the tailpipe. It should be very
 >difficult to hold the rag in place for any length of time and any leaks will
 >become more audible. If it is easy to hold the rag in place, then there is
 >probably some blockage upstream, like the catylytic converter or muffler.
 >
 >The other check is to disconnect the exhaust pipe at the manifold and see
 >what you get.

I'll bet that you've hit it Ray...My bet is a frigged Catalytic
converter...
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Celica with no power 

I disconnected the exhaust pipe up stream from the catalytic converter and
it did not fix the problem.
I did find that after I start the car I can drive it for about a mile before
the problem begins. Then is starts to stall out if you push down on the
accelerator. It almost sounds like it is missing. If you stop and put it
in park and push the accelerator down slowly, then the engine RPM will
increase. If while you are in park you quickly floor the accelerator, then
the engine will begin to stall out and run very rough and the RPMs will not
go higher than 1000. One thing I found with a vacuum gage. When the car is
in the mode where it begins to stall out the vacuum drops to zero and does
not recover.
I am at a loss as to what is causing the problem. Could it be the EGR
system? Could there be something causing the system not to get fuel when
the accelerator is quickly pushed down? What could cause the vacuum to go
down, do I have a serious problem in the engine?
I'm almost to the point of brining it into a garage and have a professional
look at it.
Any help would really be appreciated.

John F.

"Gord Beaman" <gord.RemoveThis@islandtelecom.com> wrote in message
news:j4iut0p6ln24vu37o535vr0rfurenuqbm2@4ax.com...
 > "Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
 >
  >>
  >>"John F" <johnboyflynn.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
  >>news:H76dnZDT84G4h0LcRVn-3A@comcast.com...
   >>>I bought a vacuum gage and attached it to the manifold. When the car was
   >>>idling the vacuum was about 20. When I put the engine under load and
   >>>gave
   >>>it some gas the vacuum dropped to zero. The operating instructions for
   >>>the
   >>>vacuum gage said this is probably caused by a restricted exhaust system.
   >>> Does anyone have any other ideas about a cause?
   >>>
   >>> John F.
   >>>
  >>
  >>Down and dirty seat-of the pants exhaust check is to start the car, place
  >>in
  >>park or neutral with parking brake engaged and wheels blocked and have
  >>someone place a wadded-up rag over the tailpipe. It should be very
  >>difficult to hold the rag in place for any length of time and any leaks
  >>will
  >>become more audible. If it is easy to hold the rag in place, then there
  >>is
  >>probably some blockage upstream, like the catylytic converter or muffler.
  >>
  >>The other check is to disconnect the exhaust pipe at the manifold and see
  >>what you get.
 >
 > I'll bet that you've hit it Ray...My bet is a frigged Catalytic
 > converter...
 > --
 >
 > -Gord.
 > (use gordon in email)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Celica with no power 

"John F" <johnboyflynn.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:SJ6dneuZaYlVsX3cRVn-vA@comcast.com...
 >I disconnected the exhaust pipe up stream from the catalytic converter and
 >it did not fix the problem.
 > I did find that after I start the car I can drive it for about a mile
 > before the problem begins. Then is starts to stall out if you push down
 > on the accelerator. It almost sounds like it is missing. If you stop and
 > put it in park and push the accelerator down slowly, then the engine RPM
 > will increase. If while you are in park you quickly floor the
 > accelerator, then the engine will begin to stall out and run very rough
 > and the RPMs will not go higher than 1000.

I don't remember what year/engine combo you have but it is possible your
spark advance, whether vacuum, mechanical, or electronic, is not working
properly. Also, base spark timing maybe off.

One thing I found with a vacuum gage. When the car is
 > in the mode where it begins to stall out the vacuum drops to zero and
 > does not recover.

Idle vacuum, assuming the 20 you mentioned is inches mercury (HG) is about
right. The drop and no recovery would make me suspect a vacuum leak or leak
in the intake system. Since idle vacuum is about right, check the intake
system for leaks around the filter housing and for cracks or holes in the
hoses, especially between the air flow meter and intake manifold. Check the
underside of the hoses for cracks or holes.

 > I am at a loss as to what is causing the problem. Could it be the EGR
 > system?

EGR problems usually don't give the symptoms you're describing.

Could there be something causing the system not to get fuel when
 > the accelerator is quickly pushed down?

If you have a carbureted engine, yes. If you have a fuel-injected engine,
unlikely.

What could cause the vacuum to go
 > down, do I have a serious problem in the engine?
 > I'm almost to the point of brining it into a garage and have a
 > professional look at it.
 > Any help would really be appreciated.
 >
 > John F.
Another possibility is one or more leaking piston rings, that can be
confirmed with a compression test. Leaking rings would develop gradually
and is not likely to happen suddenly so if the problem came on fairly
suddenly, then the rings are less suspect.

The most likely cause is a leak somewhere in the intake or vacuum.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Celica with no power 

I have been looking for a vacuum leak and have replaced the majority of the
vacuum lines, but still no help.
I next checked the ignition timing. I shorted terminals T and E1 on the
check connector and attached my timing light to cylindar #1. The timing
light showed 19 to 20 degrees BTC when the car was running at 700 RPM. The
RPM was measured using the tacometer on the instument panel. Could the
timing be part of my problem? Could the timing belt have slipped?

John F.


"Ray O" <rokigawa@tristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:82c41$41e0c80b$180fead6$18468@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
 >
 > "John F" <johnboyflynn DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
 > news:SJ6dneuZaYlVsX3cRVn-vA@comcast.com...
  >>I disconnected the exhaust pipe up stream from the catalytic converter and
  >>it did not fix the problem.
  >> I did find that after I start the car I can drive it for about a mile
  >> before the problem begins. Then is starts to stall out if you push down
  >> on the accelerator. It almost sounds like it is missing. If you stop
  >> and put it in park and push the accelerator down slowly, then the engine
  >> RPM will increase. If while you are in park you quickly floor the
  >> accelerator, then the engine will begin to stall out and run very rough
  >> and the RPMs will not go higher than 1000.
 >
 > I don't remember what year/engine combo you have but it is possible your
 > spark advance, whether vacuum, mechanical, or electronic, is not working
 > properly. Also, base spark timing maybe off.
 >
 > One thing I found with a vacuum gage. When the car is
  >> in the mode where it begins to stall out the vacuum drops to zero and
  >> does not recover.
 >
 > Idle vacuum, assuming the 20 you mentioned is inches mercury (HG) is about
 > right. The drop and no recovery would make me suspect a vacuum leak or
 > leak in the intake system. Since idle vacuum is about right, check the
 > intake system for leaks around the filter housing and for cracks or holes
 > in the hoses, especially between the air flow meter and intake manifold.
 > Check the underside of the hoses for cracks or holes.
 >
  >> I am at a loss as to what is causing the problem. Could it be the EGR
  >> system?
 >
 > EGR problems usually don't give the symptoms you're describing.
 >
 > Could there be something causing the system not to get fuel when
  >> the accelerator is quickly pushed down?
 >
 > If you have a carbureted engine, yes. If you have a fuel-injected engine,
 > unlikely.
 >
 > What could cause the vacuum to go
  >> down, do I have a serious problem in the engine?
  >> I'm almost to the point of brining it into a garage and have a
  >> professional look at it.
  >> Any help would really be appreciated.
  >>
  >> John F.
 > Another possibility is one or more leaking piston rings, that can be
 > confirmed with a compression test. Leaking rings would develop gradually
 > and is not likely to happen suddenly so if the problem came on fairly
 > suddenly, then the rings are less suspect.
 >
 > The most likely cause is a leak somewhere in the intake or vacuum.
 > --
 > Ray O
 > correct the return address punctuation to reply
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Celica with no power 

"John F" <johnboyflynn RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:dvSdnXPo97urYXzcRVn-vg@comcast.com...
 >I have been looking for a vacuum leak and have replaced the majority of the
 >vacuum lines, but still no help.
 > I next checked the ignition timing. I shorted terminals T and E1 on the
 > check connector and attached my timing light to cylindar #1. The timing
 > light showed 19 to 20 degrees BTC when the car was running at 700 RPM.
 > The RPM was measured using the tacometer on the instument panel. Could
 > the timing be part of my problem? Could the timing belt have slipped?
 >
 > John F.

You would have to check the ignition timing specs for your car but it sounds
too advanced. Timing is probably part of your problem. Timing belts rarely
slip. Check the intake plenum for cracks and leaks.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Celica with no power