Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...?

"Kenneth" <usenet.TakeThisOut@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
news:a9np93ls730hnj5cqm5oaibdo3uifljlru@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 03:16:41 GMT, "Tomes" <askme.TakeThisOut@here.net>
> wrote:
>
>>"Kenneth" ...
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> I would love to get some sort of cargo restraint for my '04
>>> Sienna.
>>>
>>> We sometimes carry lots of camping and kayaking gear and the
>>> thought of having it all come forward in the event of an
>>> accident, well, you can guess the rest...
>>>
>>> Does anyone make anything that would (really) do the job?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any help,
>>
>>You might want to look into those animal restraint cages, those grid walls
>>that set up behind the rear seat.
>>
>>What I have done in my Sienna in real life is sometimes tie the stuff up
>>that is over the top of the rear seats so it does not fall forward.
>>Tomes
>>
>
> Howdy,
>
> The animal restraint stuff I have seen is not up to the
> strength needs I have. In the event of an accident, the
> forces generated by stuff flying around are of significance.
>
> We very rarely use the third row of seats, so tie points on
> the floor are available, but, I can't see any tie point
> opportunities high up behind the second row of seats.
>
> I know that there are structural roof pillars at that point,
> but I don't want to mess with them too much because they
> contain curtain airbags.
>
> If I knew that there was something in there (such as a seat
> bolt mount) all would be golden: I would just make an
> appropriately strong nylon net and clip it to the lower seat
> mounts and the upper attachment points in the pillars.
>
> I'd certainly welcome any further thoughts,
> --
> Kenneth


OK...let's reexamine this. First of all, it's good that you're thinking this
way. But, you're quickly heading into absurdity.

1) Forget the nylon net. You sound as obsessive as I am. So, you do NOT want
something that's already full of holes. You want something that's already up
to the task of handling lots of force. You want boat sail material. Not a
tarp from Home Depot, but boat sail material, professionally cut, sewn and
seamed, with grommets to handle the right rope. Not near a place that makes
sails? Post a message in rec.boats and ask for info. Someone's bound to know
a place that will work with you over the phone. All you need, basically, is
a rectangle. Make a template out of an old bed sheet and send it to the sail
maker.

2) You want real rope, at least 1/2", but preferably 5/8" or 3/4", nylon.
Forget clips, clamps or other bullshit. You'll use the right knots for
whatever tiedown points you have available. If rope will hold a large boat
in a storm, it'll hold your cargo in place, assuming the tiedowns don't rip
out of the metal. You will learn to whip the rope ends (wrap in waxed
string) to keep them from fraying. Then, you'll dip them in special stuff
made for sealing the ends, available from www.westmarine.com. No burning the
rope ends with a lighter. That's for cub scouts and adult idiots, although
it's acceptable just for the time it takes to get the rope home from the
store.

3) Concern yourself first with holding the cargo down tightly. If the
cargo's moving upward in an accident, it means you've rolled the vehicle and
you have much bigger problems.

4) Get under the vehicle and see if there are any flat areas where you could
drill holes to mount your own serious tiedown "devices". You might be able
to add a metal plate underneath to reinforce the thin metal of the car. Boat
makers do this (using wood or metal as a backing reinforcement) when they
mount cleats to fiberglass. Use boat hardware - the expensive kind whose
edges have been rounded so you don't rip your skin if you bump into the
while unloading groceries.

If this is all too much, get a roof box from Thule. Not Sears. Or, dump the
silly van and get a Crown Victoria, which has a trunk the size of Montana.
It's an old person car. Old people are dying all the time. Watch for good
deals on used ones. Install air shocks. Problem solved.
 >> Stay informed about: Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...? 

"JoeSpareBedroom" <dishborealis.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:DE5ni.12302$B25.2706@news01.roc.ny...
<snipped>
> 4) Get under the vehicle and see if there are any flat areas where you
> could drill holes to mount your own serious tiedown "devices". You might
> be able to add a metal plate underneath to reinforce the thin metal of the
> car. Boat makers do this (using wood or metal as a backing reinforcement)
> when they mount cleats to fiberglass. Use boat hardware - the expensive
> kind whose edges have been rounded so you don't rip your skin if you bump
> into the while unloading groceries.
>

Drilling holes in the undercarriage is not such a good idea. First,
drilling will break the protective coating on the metal, and rust will form
around the holes. Second, adding a reinforcing place without properly
rust-proofing the plate and sealing the seams will trap moisture between the
plate and underbody, and if the plate is not the correct material, you can
get galvanic (sp?) corrosion.

> If this is all too much, get a roof box from Thule. Not Sears. Or, dump
> the silly van and get a Crown Victoria, which has a trunk the size of
> Montana. It's an old person car. Old people are dying all the time. Watch
> for good deals on used ones. Install air shocks. Problem solved.
>

I have both the Sears clamshell and Thule boxes, and the Thule or Yakima are
the way to go. Thule also makes a box that attaches to a trailer hitch so
that you do not have to lift stuff up on to the roof, and there is no
additional drag from having a box up on the roof.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
 >> Stay informed about: Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...? 

"Kenneth" <usenet.RemoveThis@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
news:eonp93hmb47pam5e158djv4deoi07a4174@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:24:09 -0500, "Ray O"
> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>
>>
>>Go to www.cabellas.com, click on the "Auto and ATV" link, then in the
>>Automotive Interior section, click on the "Automotive Pet Accessories"
>>link,
>>then look at the Dog Barrier and Wire Barriers.
>>
>>Or, go to www.mats.com, click on the "Pet and Home" link and check out the
>>pet barrier.
>>
>>Or, get a set of motorcycle tie-down straps or bungee cords to secure the
>>cargo to the hooks on the floor where the seats attach.
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I very much appreciate your suggestions, but...
>
> The pet related stuff is just not up to the task. I have
> called a number of suppliers and have asked each "Would this
> thing stand up to a push with my shoulder?" They always say
> no.
>
> The tie down idea is the direction I will probably go, but
> it would certainly be much easier to implement if I could
> find a way to find a way to support a "tie up" as well as a
> "tie down."
>
> Thanks again,
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Are you looking for something more heavy-duty like this:
http://www.americanvan.com/catalog/standard_large_wide.cfm?FamilyID=77

or try searching "van partition" to see what comes up.

If the cargo loaded behind the pet barrier is piled from the floor to the
ceiling, then cargo moving forward at the top, above the seatbacks, would be
counter-acted by the stuff on the floor, which is stopped by the seat back.
For a little extra security, you can run some webbing from the top of the
barrier back at an angle to the third row seat anchors. 1 inch tubular
climbing webbing, available at places that sell climbing and spelunking
supplies or at REI.com, has a breaking strength of 2,000 lbs. Do not use
the flat webbing that people normally use to lash stuff unless it has a
breaking strength of at least 2,000 lbs I would get 2 climbing carabiners
(the real ones, not the keychain type) which have a breaking strength of at
least 22 Kn (around 2,000 lbs). Double about 8 inches of the end of the
piece of webbing over itself and then tie an overhand knot in the doubled
section to form a loop (climbers call this a water knot). Slip a biner
through the loop and clip it to the seat anchor. Thread the webbing up to
the top of the barrier, across the other side of the car, and then back down
to the seat anchor. The barrier will keep the stuff from coming forward
during normal driving, and the webbing may help restrain the stuff during an
accident. Non-locking biners can be had for under $10 each, and locking
biners range from $12 to $20. Locking biners have a mechanism to keep the
gate from accidentally opening, while non-locking biners do not. For your
purposed, non-locking should be good enough. Webbing us usually around 35
to 40 cents per foot. Get about 20 or 30 feet .


--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
 >> Stay informed about: Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...? 

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:56:19 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
<dishborealis.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>OK...let's reexamine this. First of all, it's good that you're thinking this
>way. But, you're quickly heading into absurdity.
>
>1) Forget the nylon net. You sound as obsessive as I am. So, you do NOT want
>something that's already full of holes. You want something that's already up
>to the task of handling lots of force. You want boat sail material. Not a
>tarp from Home Depot, but boat sail material, professionally cut, sewn and
>seamed, with grommets to handle the right rope. Not near a place that makes
>sails? Post a message in rec.boats and ask for info. Someone's bound to know
>a place that will work with you over the phone. All you need, basically, is
>a rectangle. Make a template out of an old bed sheet and send it to the sail
>maker.
>
>2) You want real rope, at least 1/2", but preferably 5/8" or 3/4", nylon.
>Forget clips, clamps or other bullshit. You'll use the right knots for
>whatever tiedown points you have available. If rope will hold a large boat
>in a storm, it'll hold your cargo in place, assuming the tiedowns don't rip
>out of the metal. You will learn to whip the rope ends (wrap in waxed
>string) to keep them from fraying. Then, you'll dip them in special stuff
>made for sealing the ends, available from www.westmarine.com. No burning the
>rope ends with a lighter. That's for cub scouts and adult idiots, although
>it's acceptable just for the time it takes to get the rope home from the
>store.
>
>3) Concern yourself first with holding the cargo down tightly. If the
>cargo's moving upward in an accident, it means you've rolled the vehicle and
>you have much bigger problems.
>
>4) Get under the vehicle and see if there are any flat areas where you could
>drill holes to mount your own serious tiedown "devices". You might be able
>to add a metal plate underneath to reinforce the thin metal of the car. Boat
>makers do this (using wood or metal as a backing reinforcement) when they
>mount cleats to fiberglass. Use boat hardware - the expensive kind whose
>edges have been rounded so you don't rip your skin if you bump into the
>while unloading groceries.
>
>If this is all too much, get a roof box from Thule. Not Sears. Or, dump the
>silly van and get a Crown Victoria, which has a trunk the size of Montana.
>It's an old person car. Old people are dying all the time. Watch for good
>deals on used ones. Install air shocks. Problem solved.
>

Hello again,

I thank you for your comments...

First off, when I used the term "nylon net" I was intending
something on the order of a cargo net.

I've been making outdoor equipment for well over 40 years
and really do understand something of the strength needs.
'Sorry if I contributed to any confusion.

Next, the main difficulty is not the bottom tie down
location as there are available very appropriate points that
hold the seat latches.

The problem is the top.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
 >> Stay informed about: Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...? 

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 00:09:10 -0500, "Ray O"
<rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:

>and there is no
>additional drag from having a box up on the roof.

Hi Ray,

Now that one caught my attention...

Is that actually true?

Very sincere thanks,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
 >> Stay informed about: Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...? 

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 00:38:51 -0500, "Ray O"
<rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:

Hi Ray,

>
>Are you looking for something more heavy-duty like this:
>http://www.americanvan.com/catalog/standard_large_wide.cfm?FamilyID=77

YES...! That may be a very useful link.


>
>or try searching "van partition" to see what comes up.

Will do..., another good suggestion.

>
>If the cargo loaded behind the pet barrier is piled from the floor to the
>ceiling, then cargo moving forward at the top, above the seatbacks, would be
>counter-acted by the stuff on the floor, which is stopped by the seat back.
>For a little extra security, you can run some webbing from the top of the
>barrier back at an angle to the third row seat anchors. 1 inch tubular
>climbing webbing, available at places that sell climbing and spelunking
>supplies or at REI.com, has a breaking strength of 2,000 lbs. Do not use
>the flat webbing that people normally use to lash stuff unless it has a
>breaking strength of at least 2,000 lbs I would get 2 climbing carabiners
>(the real ones, not the keychain type) which have a breaking strength of at
>least 22 Kn (around 2,000 lbs). Double about 8 inches of the end of the
>piece of webbing over itself and then tie an overhand knot in the doubled
>section to form a loop (climbers call this a water knot). Slip a biner
>through the loop and clip it to the seat anchor. Thread the webbing up to
>the top of the barrier, across the other side of the car, and then back down
>to the seat anchor. The barrier will keep the stuff from coming forward
>during normal driving, and the webbing may help restrain the stuff during an
>accident. Non-locking biners can be had for under $10 each, and locking
>biners range from $12 to $20. Locking biners have a mechanism to keep the
>gate from accidentally opening, while non-locking biners do not. For your
>purposed, non-locking should be good enough. Webbing us usually around 35
>to 40 cents per foot. Get about 20 or 30 feet .

As before, please accept my thanks,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
 >> Stay informed about: Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...? 

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 07:54:43 -0400, Kenneth
<usenet RemoveThis @soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote:

>>http://www.americanvan.com/catalog/standard_large_wide.cfm?FamilyID=77
>
>YES...! That may be a very useful link.

Hi again Ray,

Unfortunately, that outfit does not make anything to fit the
Sienna. I will continue to check other similar companies
though.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
 >> Stay informed about: Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...? 

"Kenneth" <usenet.RemoveThis@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
news:dlvr93daf8up3okggm3kfjfdgb05ofoa8g@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 00:09:10 -0500, "Ray O"
> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>
>>and there is no
>>additional drag from having a box up on the roof.
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> Now that one caught my attention...
>
> Is that actually true?
>
> Very sincere thanks,
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Let me re-state that a little more clearly: These hitch-mount systems from
Thule do not add a lot of aerodynamic drag like the box on the roof does:
http://www.thuleracks.com/thule/carrier_luggage2.asp?location=3

We have one of those Thule aerodynamic roof boxes, and they have much less
drag than the old clamshell type boxes, but they still add some drag. The
drag is not very noticeable on our V8-powered Sequoia, unlike the clamshell
type was on our 4 cylinder Previa, where the car had trouble making 75 MPH
with the box on top!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
 >> Stay informed about: Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...? 

"Kenneth" <usenet.DeleteThis@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
news:csjs93554g7g5ekr6066p3rfc774vod61q@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 07:54:43 -0400, Kenneth
> <usenet.DeleteThis@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote:
>
>>>http://www.americanvan.com/catalog/standard_large_wide.cfm?FamilyID=77
>>
>>YES...! That may be a very useful link.
>
> Hi again Ray,
>
> Unfortunately, that outfit does not make anything to fit the
> Sienna. I will continue to check other similar companies
> though.
>
> All the best,
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

You're welcome! Please share your solution when you have one.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
 >> Stay informed about: Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...? 

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:51:09 -0500, "Ray O"
<rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" <usenet RemoveThis @soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
>news:csjs93554g7g5ekr6066p3rfc774vod61q@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 07:54:43 -0400, Kenneth
>> <usenet RemoveThis @soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>http://www.americanvan.com/catalog/standard_large_wide.cfm?FamilyID=77
>>>
>>>YES...! That may be a very useful link.
>>
>> Hi again Ray,
>>
>> Unfortunately, that outfit does not make anything to fit the
>> Sienna. I will continue to check other similar companies
>> though.
>>
>> All the best,
>> --
>> Kenneth
>>
>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>
>You're welcome! Please share your solution when you have one.

Hi Ray,

Nothing yet, but I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
 >> Stay informed about: Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...? 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...? 

<mike.RemoveThis@nosam.org> wrote in message
news:aidv93d2vpkescug7uf1s3bi72hf79bcb6@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:50:18 -0500, "Ray O"
> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Kenneth" <usenet.RemoveThis@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
>>news:dlvr93daf8up3okggm3kfjfdgb05ofoa8g@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 00:09:10 -0500, "Ray O"
>>> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>>>
>>>>and there is no
>>>>additional drag from having a box up on the roof.
>>>
>>> Hi Ray,
>>>
>>> Now that one caught my attention...
>>>
>>> Is that actually true?
>>>
>>> Very sincere thanks,
>>> --
>>> Kenneth
>>>
>>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>>
>>Let me re-state that a little more clearly: These hitch-mount systems
>>from
>>Thule do not add a lot of aerodynamic drag like the box on the roof does:
>>http://www.thuleracks.com/thule/carrier_luggage2.asp?location=3
>>
>>We have one of those Thule aerodynamic roof boxes, and they have much less
>>drag than the old clamshell type boxes, but they still add some drag. The
>>drag is not very noticeable on our V8-powered Sequoia, unlike the
>>clamshell
>>type was on our 4 cylinder Previa, where the car had trouble making 75 MPH
>>with the box on top!
>
> Tried this link - only sent me in a circle with lots of questions and
> no answers.

Then, just go to the main page and start from scratch. It'll walk you
through some questions about your vehicle, and then show you list of various
cargo carrier options. If you tell it you want a rooftop deal, and none
exists, you won't see any. Start over and tell it you want the trailer hitch
option.
 >> Stay informed about: Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...? 

<mike.TakeThisOut@nosam.org> wrote in message
news:aidv93d2vpkescug7uf1s3bi72hf79bcb6@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:50:18 -0500, "Ray O"
> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Kenneth" <usenet.TakeThisOut@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
>>news:dlvr93daf8up3okggm3kfjfdgb05ofoa8g@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 00:09:10 -0500, "Ray O"
>>> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>>>
>>>>and there is no
>>>>additional drag from having a box up on the roof.
>>>
>>> Hi Ray,
>>>
>>> Now that one caught my attention...
>>>
>>> Is that actually true?
>>>
>>> Very sincere thanks,
>>> --
>>> Kenneth
>>>
>>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>>
>>Let me re-state that a little more clearly: These hitch-mount systems
>>from
>>Thule do not add a lot of aerodynamic drag like the box on the roof does:
>>http://www.thuleracks.com/thule/carrier_luggage2.asp?location=3
>>
>>We have one of those Thule aerodynamic roof boxes, and they have much less
>>drag than the old clamshell type boxes, but they still add some drag. The
>>drag is not very noticeable on our V8-powered Sequoia, unlike the
>>clamshell
>>type was on our 4 cylinder Previa, where the car had trouble making 75 MPH
>>with the box on top!
>
> Tried this link - only sent me in a circle with lots of questions and
> no answers.

Your best bet is probably to go to www.thule.com and walk through the
options for a roof mounted box and hitch mounted cargo systems.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
 >> Stay informed about: Cargo Restraint for '04 Sienna...?