Bosch quad spark plugs?

wrote:
> I'm trying to find ways to make my 4-banger '96 Camry feel just a
> little more like a V-6.
>
> I noticed Bosch sells quad-spark plugs. Do they deliver noticeably
> more power than the usual dual-spark plugs?
>
> Any other tricks I can try to make the engine more powerful, short of
> changing out the engine?
=========================
This is one of my favorite topics.
First forget about Bosch plugs. Knowledgeable Toyota mechanics call
them "botched" plugs since they often create problems in Toyotas.
Seems the center electrode is so thin it fouls more easily. Some have
reported no problems but numerous others get misfiring and problems
developing not long after installation that weren't there before.
Use ND or NGK only. I use ND and the gap is the same after 60,000
miles. Your car takes the platinum plugs. The owner's manual should
have the exact designation for you. Mine were part number
90919-01178-83.
There are many items that can be improved.
If your brake fluid was like syrup, here's another place to check that
may have been neglected and can cause a noticeable increase in power.
Drain the differential fluid and replace with Mobil 1 synthetic ATF.
Should be 1.7 quarts. Or if you prefer, use the standard Dexron
compatible standard ATF. Even with documents showing this work had
been done, when I drained mine first time the fluid came out looking
like chocolate milk whereas it should be a light red color.
Check the resistance of your spark plug wires. I had an intermittent
light miss caused by shorting from down near the boot inside the spark
plug tube. Resistance should be maximum 25K ohms. Two of my plug wires
were at infinite resistance. Use only Toyota parts for secondary
ignition components.
If the plug wires aren't right and you have a distributor, change the
cap and rotor.
Get the air pressure in the tires right. That's another topic by
itself and I can't comment direct numbers because your sidewall aspect
ratio is different, but it will make a difference in power and
handling. I tried many various combinations of pressure up and down,
front and rear before settling on the perfect solution.
Get a belt tension gauge and check the belt tension by the numbers in
the factory service manual. I found a Burroughs belt tension gauge on
eBay after some time of searching, and have a small click type tension
gauge for the power steering belt.
If you read the factory service manual, for replacing the idle air
control valve, there are a lot of things you can do when removing and
cleaning the throttle body. I found all of the adjustments they
indicated needed to be done. The throttle position sensor was off
slightly and one of the vacuum ports to the EGR modulator valve was
plugged and cleared as they suggested with solvent and compressed air.
Car ran better after that.
You can also take a concrete block and press the accelerator pedal to
the floor then go under the hood and adjust the threaded cable
adjuster to get the throttle plate to be wide open. Then double check
that you still have enough slack in the cable to allow it to close
fully at idle. I found the cable was not opening fully.
I like to use all synthetic oils in the transmission, power steering
and engine. I also use Lucas synthetic oil stabilizer and Lucas fuel
treatment and upper cylinder lubricant.
Keep all the fluids clean.
Not sure it makes any difference in power but I also use the Purolator
oil filter because I like the quality of the base gasket and
construction and filtering capability overall.
Check the brake caliper sliding pins. Remove and replace or lubricate
with synthetic brake caliper grease. It is inexpensive and easy to
also replace those little rubber bellows at the same time. This will
equalize braking force across inner and outer pads with the single
caliper and prevent the brakes from dragging.
Seems the caliper pins are frequently overlooked. My "new" brakes from
dealer service by the prior owner, completely seized up after several
years and when I replaced the calipers I found the old sliding pins
jamming in their bores such that I need vice grip pliers to remove
them by pulling and twisting whereas the properly lubricated pins
float with a moderate touch of the finger.
Keep the air filter clean and use a Toyota air filter. They have three
progressively finer layers of filtering media to maximize flow and
filtration efficiency.
Check under the hood for oil leaks. Doesn't make the engine quicker,
but if you learn all of the components, and keep them clean, you'll
replace things as needed instead of waiting until they fail. Typical
items would be PCV valve and grommet, valve cover gasket and front
engine oil seals. Possibly oil pan gasket.
Make sure the tire alignment is correct. Incorrect toe angle increases
drag.
That should be enough to get you started!
 >> Stay informed about: Bosch quad spark plugs? 

Wheeeeew! That's a write up.

Bosch plugs work fine in European cars with Motronic digital engine
control systems. But I've heard Toyotas like only ND (Nippon Denso,
now just plain Denso) and NGK. People attribute it to heat range
matching. The problem with center electrode fouling supposedly comes
from waste spark systems. The nickel from the ground gets deposited
onto the center electrode. So mrdarrett, how are your Bosch x2 doing
lately? Ever tried the Bosch Platinum Ir Fusion plugs?

http://www.boschautoparts.com/Products/SparkPlugs/IrFusion.htm

Densos for me wears badly and the gap widens. IMO, Densos are not as
good as NGKs and work best when replaced at 30K miles. However, NGKs
seem to not show any wear at 60K miles, but the engine still benefits
from replacement. NGK Iridium and Laser Iridium (Toyota spec'ed these
at 120K mile intervals) are my preferred plugs.

www.ngksparkplugs.com

That said, on traditional non-waste-spark systems, Bosch x2 and x4
should offer similar performance as the Iridiums because of the thin
center electrodes able to ignite leaner than usual mixtures (to
17-18:1?).



Daniel wrote:
> wrote:
> > I'm trying to find ways to make my 4-banger '96 Camry feel just a
> > little more like a V-6.
> >
> > I noticed Bosch sells quad-spark plugs. Do they deliver noticeably
> > more power than the usual dual-spark plugs?
> >
> > Any other tricks I can try to make the engine more powerful, short of
> > changing out the engine?
> =========================
> This is one of my favorite topics.
> First forget about Bosch plugs. Knowledgeable Toyota mechanics call
> them "botched" plugs since they often create problems in Toyotas.
> Seems the center electrode is so thin it fouls more easily. Some have
> reported no problems but numerous others get misfiring and problems
> developing not long after installation that weren't there before.
> Use ND or NGK only. I use ND and the gap is the same after 60,000
> miles. Your car takes the platinum plugs. The owner's manual should
> have the exact designation for you. Mine were part number
> 90919-01178-83.
> There are many items that can be improved.
> If your brake fluid was like syrup, here's another place to check that
> may have been neglected and can cause a noticeable increase in power.
> Drain the differential fluid and replace with Mobil 1 synthetic ATF.
> Should be 1.7 quarts. Or if you prefer, use the standard Dexron
> compatible standard ATF. Even with documents showing this work had
> been done, when I drained mine first time the fluid came out looking
> like chocolate milk whereas it should be a light red color.
> Check the resistance of your spark plug wires. I had an intermittent
> light miss caused by shorting from down near the boot inside the spark
> plug tube. Resistance should be maximum 25K ohms. Two of my plug wires
> were at infinite resistance. Use only Toyota parts for secondary
> ignition components.
> If the plug wires aren't right and you have a distributor, change the
> cap and rotor.
> Get the air pressure in the tires right. That's another topic by
> itself and I can't comment direct numbers because your sidewall aspect
> ratio is different, but it will make a difference in power and
> handling. I tried many various combinations of pressure up and down,
> front and rear before settling on the perfect solution.
> Get a belt tension gauge and check the belt tension by the numbers in
> the factory service manual. I found a Burroughs belt tension gauge on
> eBay after some time of searching, and have a small click type tension
> gauge for the power steering belt.
> If you read the factory service manual, for replacing the idle air
> control valve, there are a lot of things you can do when removing and
> cleaning the throttle body. I found all of the adjustments they
> indicated needed to be done. The throttle position sensor was off
> slightly and one of the vacuum ports to the EGR modulator valve was
> plugged and cleared as they suggested with solvent and compressed air.
> Car ran better after that.
> You can also take a concrete block and press the accelerator pedal to
> the floor then go under the hood and adjust the threaded cable
> adjuster to get the throttle plate to be wide open. Then double check
> that you still have enough slack in the cable to allow it to close
> fully at idle. I found the cable was not opening fully.
> I like to use all synthetic oils in the transmission, power steering
> and engine. I also use Lucas synthetic oil stabilizer and Lucas fuel
> treatment and upper cylinder lubricant.
> Keep all the fluids clean.
> Not sure it makes any difference in power but I also use the Purolator
> oil filter because I like the quality of the base gasket and
> construction and filtering capability overall.
> Check the brake caliper sliding pins. Remove and replace or lubricate
> with synthetic brake caliper grease. It is inexpensive and easy to
> also replace those little rubber bellows at the same time. This will
> equalize braking force across inner and outer pads with the single
> caliper and prevent the brakes from dragging.
> Seems the caliper pins are frequently overlooked. My "new" brakes from
> dealer service by the prior owner, completely seized up after several
> years and when I replaced the calipers I found the old sliding pins
> jamming in their bores such that I need vice grip pliers to remove
> them by pulling and twisting whereas the properly lubricated pins
> float with a moderate touch of the finger.
> Keep the air filter clean and use a Toyota air filter. They have three
> progressively finer layers of filtering media to maximize flow and
> filtration efficiency.
> Check under the hood for oil leaks. Doesn't make the engine quicker,
> but if you learn all of the components, and keep them clean, you'll
> replace things as needed instead of waiting until they fail. Typical
> items would be PCV valve and grommet, valve cover gasket and front
> engine oil seals. Possibly oil pan gasket.
> Make sure the tire alignment is correct. Incorrect toe angle increases
> drag.
> That should be enough to get you started!
 >> Stay informed about: Bosch quad spark plugs? 

On Feb 11, 5:15 pm, wrote:
> Wheeeeew! That's a write up.
>
> Bosch plugs work fine in European cars with Motronic digital engine
> control systems. But I've heard Toyotas like only ND (Nippon Denso,
> now just plain Denso) and NGK. People attribute it to heat range
> matching. The problem with center electrode fouling supposedly comes
> from waste spark systems. The nickel from the ground gets deposited
> onto the center electrode. So mrdarrett, how are your Bosch x2 doing
> lately? Ever tried the Bosch Platinum Ir Fusion plugs?


The Bosch x2 plugs on my '99 are doing fine... haven't pulled them out
yet; less than 10k miles on those plugs.

The ones on my '96 are single spark, planning on replacing those with
a dual spark. They have about 20k miles on them.

Does platinum vs. regular plug really make a difference? Pep Boys has
NGK V-shaped plugs for $1.80 ea, but jumps to $7 or so ea. for
platinum.

fwiw, I put synthetic tranny fluid in my diff last year (both cars).
Didn't notice much mpg/power increase though...

Michael
 >> Stay informed about: Bosch quad spark plugs? 

I wouldn't use Power-V ($1.70, rockauto.com). NGK G-Power platinums
are $2.42. These have a thinner center electrode. Or you can use the
Bosch x1 at $2.18. Both are better than Power-V at similar prices.
Bosch x2 is $3.67 each.

The NGK Iridium-IX costs $6.58 each. The Laser Iridium IFR6T11 at
$7.64 can last as much as 120K miles in new Toyotas. (But I prefer
more frequent intervals using cheaper plugs).

Whatever you do I doubt you'll get any noticeable performance
increases other than the car might coast longer and have just that
slightly better pick up on acceleration. The web sites all tell you
that you should get a few percentage points of improvement, but that
won't make a 4cyl a V6, if you measure things using lab equipment.

Plats are for longer service life. But iridiums with the thin center
electrodes will give you better performance (again, a few percentage
points). I use exclusively NGK iridiums (both Ir-IX and Laser-Ir).
That's why I think the Bosch x2 and x4 with the thin center electrodes
should give you similar if not better performance (in Bosch x2 and x4
the flame travels flat out towards the ground electrodes).

You can check the prices on www.rockauto.com if you get multiple sets
together for all the cars you save on shipping.

NGK Laser Ir:
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/spark_plugs/laser_platinum.asp?mode=nml

Bosch spark plugs:
http://www.boschautoparts.com/Products/SparkPlugs/


On Feb 12, 3:09 pm, wrote:
> On Feb 11, 5:15 pm, wrote:
> The Bosch x2 plugs on my '99 are doing fine... haven't pulled them out
> yet; less than 10k miles on those plugs.
>
> The ones on my '96 are single spark, planning on replacing those with
> a dual spark. They have about 20k miles on them.
>
> Does platinum vs. regular plug really make a difference? Pep Boys has
> NGK V-shaped plugs for $1.80 ea, but jumps to $7 or so ea. for
> platinum.
>
> fwiw, I put synthetic tranny fluid in my diff last year (both cars).
> Didn't notice much mpg/power increase though...
>
> Michael
 >> Stay informed about: Bosch quad spark plugs? 

On Feb 12, 6:41 pm, "C. E. White" wrote:
> wrote in message
>
>
>
> > The Bosch x2 plugs on my '99 are doing fine... haven't pulled them out
> > yet; less than 10k miles on those plugs.
>
> But what do they do for you? You still only get one spark per compression
> stroke.
>
> > The ones on my '96 are single spark, planning on replacing those with
> > a dual spark. They have about 20k miles on them.
>
> Why are you replacing your plugs so often? Even without platinum, the plugs
> should last longer than 20k miles. I can assure you if you have a miss
> fire, the OBDII diagnostics will detect it. If you don't have a miss fire,
> what do you expect the plugs to do differently that will improve
> performance?


Ah, I thought one should replace plugs every 30k miles. Plus, I just
want to replace the single-spark Bosch plugs my dad installed with
dual-spark ones, hoping for a performance gain. I guess I'll wait a
bit longer then.

Michael
 >> Stay informed about: Bosch quad spark plugs? 

wrote in message


> The Bosch x2 plugs on my '99 are doing fine... haven't pulled them out
> yet; less than 10k miles on those plugs.

But what do they do for you? You still only get one spark per compression
stroke.

> The ones on my '96 are single spark, planning on replacing those with
> a dual spark. They have about 20k miles on them.

Why are you replacing your plugs so often? Even without platinum, the plugs
should last longer than 20k miles. I can assure you if you have a miss
fire, the OBDII diagnostics will detect it. If you don't have a miss fire,
what do you expect the plugs to do differently that will improve
performance?

> Does platinum vs. regular plug really make a difference? Pep Boys has
> NGK V-shaped plugs for $1.80 ea, but jumps to $7 or so ea. for
> platinum.

If you are going to change the plugs every 20 K miles, platinum would be a
waste of money. With platinum plugs, 100k change intervals are reasonable.
My last few vehicles all came with platinum plugs, and I didn't change any
of them at less than 75k miles, and stretched one out to over 100k miles. In
all cases, the plugs I pulled out looked almost as good as new.

For a Toyota I would use nothing but the NKG or Nippondenso plugs
recommended by Toyota. Other brands might work fine or they might not. I've
seen problem associated with using off brand plugs in highly tuned Japanese
engines because of an incorrect heat range. I can't see any reason to go out
of your way to use Bosch plugs (and especially the gimmicky ones). There are
applications for dual element plugs, or surface gap plugs but if yours is
not one of them, save your money, and got with the Toyota recommendations.

> fwiw, I put synthetic tranny fluid in my diff last year (both cars).
> Didn't notice much mpg/power increase though...

Why would you expect to? The viscosity is the same. Synthetic might flow
slightly better (and I mean slightly), but the difference would never be
detectable without some careful dynometer measurements.

Ed
 >> Stay informed about: Bosch quad spark plugs? 

Is the 96 spec'ed at 30K or 60K? Anyway, for the 96 you should do well
with the NGK G-Power platinums at $2.42 or the Bosch x1 at $2.18
www.rockauto.com prices.


wrote:
> Ah, I thought one should replace plugs every 30k miles. Plus, I just
> want to replace the single-spark Bosch plugs my dad installed with
> dual-spark ones, hoping for a performance gain. I guess I'll wait a
> bit longer then.
>
> Michael
 >> Stay informed about: Bosch quad spark plugs? 

There's a supercharger available for the Scion TC with the same 2AZFE
engine but not sure if applicable to Camrys. Popular mods are CAI and
Cat Back Exhaust. You can also try the super chips in E-Bay. But to be
honest, I never bought any of these things.
 >> Stay informed about: Bosch quad spark plugs?