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External
Since: Oct 26, 2009
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:00 pm
Post subject: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways
Archived from groups: alt>autos>toyota>camry, others (more info?)
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Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint, died in
April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
"vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
representative of her estate.
Alberto's Camry had no floor mat on the driver's side, the lawyers
said in the lawsuit.
Federal regulators and Toyota Motor Corp. are discussing whether the
automaker needs to fix gas pedals or floor pans in millions of
recalled vehicles instead of blaming floor mats, which the automaker
had maintained was the source of unintended acceleration cases.
Full article at:
http://www.freep.com/article/20091118/BUSINESS01/911180370/Toyota-look...-beyond |
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External
Since: Aug 24, 2005
Posts: 281
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:57 am
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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john wrote:
>Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint, died in
>April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
>"vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
>lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
>representative of her estate.
Wait, wait.... this is a GM retiree who owns a Toyota?
I don't know WHAT that says but it sure doesn't sound good for the
US auto industry.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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External
Since: Jul 26, 2008
Posts: 24
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:57 am
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 20 Nov 2009 06:57:06 -0500, kludge DeleteThis @panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>john wrote:
>>Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint, died in
>>April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
>>"vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
>>lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
>>representative of her estate.
>
>Wait, wait.... this is a GM retiree who owns a Toyota?
>I don't know WHAT that says but it sure doesn't sound good for the
>US auto industry.
The "poetic justice" part didn't do too well for her either.
Karma with a vengeance.
--Vic >> Stay informed about: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways |
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External
Since: Apr 13, 2004
Posts: 330
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:39 am
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"john" wrote in message
> Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint, died
> in
> April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
> "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
> lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
> representative of her estate.
How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes
if she diesd in the crash? Sounds like another case of pedal confusion
to me.
Ed
>
> Alberto's Camry had no floor mat on the driver's side, the lawyers
> said in the lawsuit.
>
> Federal regulators and Toyota Motor Corp. are discussing whether the
> automaker needs to fix gas pedals or floor pans in millions of
> recalled vehicles instead of blaming floor mats, which the automaker
> had maintained was the source of unintended acceleration cases.
>
> Full article at:
> http://www.freep.com/article/20091118/BUSINESS01/911180370/Toyota-look...-beyond >> Stay informed about: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways |
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External
Since: Aug 02, 2008
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:18 am
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:00:30 -0800 (PST), john
wrote:
> Alberto's Camry had no floor mat on the driver's side, the lawyers
> said in the lawsuit.
That does not mean the vehicle did not have a floor mat on the
driver's side at the time just preceeding the crash.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz >> Stay informed about: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways |
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External
Since: Nov 20, 2009
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:40 am
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"C. E. White" wrote:
>
> "john" wrote in message
>
> > Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint, died
> > in
> > April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
> > "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
> > lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
> > representative of her estate.
>
> How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes
> if she diesd in the crash? Sounds like another case of pedal confusion
> to me.
I would think it would be fairly easy to tell if the pads and rotors had
been heated beyond the point where they no longer can stop the vehicle.
This is something that has been observed in vehicles (usually trucks)
that have brake failure on long steep downhill grades. If the rotors
have turned blue I'd say that is pretty good evidence the brakes were
applied vigorously and desperately.
-jim
>
> Ed
>
> >
> > Alberto's Camry had no floor mat on the driver's side, the lawyers
> > said in the lawsuit.
> >
> > Federal regulators and Toyota Motor Corp. are discussing whether the
> > automaker needs to fix gas pedals or floor pans in millions of
> > recalled vehicles instead of blaming floor mats, which the automaker
> > had maintained was the source of unintended acceleration cases.
> >
> > Full article at:
> > http://www.freep.com/article/20091118/BUSINESS01/911180370/Toyota-look...-beyond >> Stay informed about: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways |
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External
Since: Jun 26, 2005
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:58 am
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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C. E. White wrote:
>
> How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes
> if she diesd in the crash? Sounds like another case of pedal confusion
> to me.
>
> Ed
>
I belong to a Prius discussion group, and a couple of members have had
strong acceleration when using the resume button on their cruise
control. They believe the cruise control may be the problem on several
models of Toyota. After using the resume button the cruise control held
the accelerator way open well after the car reached the previously set
speed. The people reporting this were able to turn off the cruise
control easily enough, and the brakes slowed the car while they were
turning it off. >> Stay informed about: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways |
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External
Since: Apr 13, 2004
Posts: 330
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:44 am
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"jim" wrote in message
>
>
> "C. E. White" wrote:
>>
>> "john" wrote in message
>>
>> > Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint,
>> > died
>> > in
>> > April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
>> > "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
>> > lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
>> > representative of her estate.
>>
>> How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her
>> brakes
>> if she diesd in the crash? Sounds like another case of pedal
>> confusion
>> to me.
>
> I would think it would be fairly easy to tell if the pads and rotors
> had
> been heated beyond the point where they no longer can stop the
> vehicle.
> This is something that has been observed in vehicles (usually
> trucks)
> that have brake failure on long steep downhill grades. If the rotors
> have turned blue I'd say that is pretty good evidence the brakes
> were
> applied vigorously and desperately.
> -jim
The problem is, she may have also been pressing the accelerator pedal
at the same time. It is less likely with a lady becasue they generally
have smaller feet, but it still happens.
And even if the rotors show signs of having been over heated, how do
you tell when this happened?
Ed >> Stay informed about: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways |
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External
Since: Nov 20, 2009
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"C. E. White" wrote:
> The problem is, she may have also been pressing the accelerator pedal
> at the same time. It is less likely with a lady becasue they generally
> have smaller feet, but it still happens.
The question I responded to was:
How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes
>
> And even if the rotors show signs of having been over heated, how do
> you tell when this happened?
Well it would have happened the last time the car was driven if the wear
surface is blue. If you let the rotors cool and use the brakes normally
it will fairly quickly wear off that bluish patina and return the color
back to a more normal appearance.
-jim >> Stay informed about: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways |
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External
Since: Nov 20, 2009
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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There you go again. Another negative report about Toyota. You jealous
that you can't afford to purchase a Toyota or Lexus? You still stuck with
that 10 year old Kia with 235,000 miles on it?
"john" wrote in message
> Alberto, a 77-year-old General Motors Co. retiree from Flint, died in
> April 2008 after her Camry sped and hit two trees although she
> "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes, according to the
> lawsuit filed in Genesee County Circuit Court by Lilia Alberto, a
> representative of her estate.
>
> Alberto's Camry had no floor mat on the driver's side, the lawyers
> said in the lawsuit.
>
> Federal regulators and Toyota Motor Corp. are discussing whether the
> automaker needs to fix gas pedals or floor pans in millions of
> recalled vehicles instead of blaming floor mats, which the automaker
> had maintained was the source of unintended acceleration cases.
>
> Full article at:
> http://www.freep.com/article/20091118/BUSINESS01/911180370/Toyota-look...-beyond >> Stay informed about: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways |
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External
Since: Jan 06, 2009
Posts: 22
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Nov 20, 9:58 am, Don Stauffer wrote:
> C. E. White wrote:
>
> > How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes
> > if she diesd in the crash? Sounds like another case of pedal confusion
> > to me.
>
> > Ed
>
> I belong to a Prius discussion group, and a couple of members have had
> strong acceleration when using the resume button on their cruise
> control. They believe the cruise control may be the problem on several
> models of Toyota. After using the resume button the cruise control held
> the accelerator way open well after the car reached the previously set
> speed. The people reporting this were able to turn off the cruise
> control easily enough, and the brakes slowed the car while they were
> turning it off.
I think this could very well be the case. My 2001 camry sometimes
'over does it' when I put it on cruise. I'm not 77 and I haven't been
dealing with GM aggravation all my life so I know what to do.. But it
does get carried away sometimes. She was 77. The car decided it was
her time to go.. >> Stay informed about: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways |
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External
Since: Jul 30, 2008
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Nov 01, 2009
Posts: 34
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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External
Since: Oct 17, 2008
Posts: 115
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"ben91932" wrote in message
>
>> How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes
>> if she diesd in the crash? Sounds like another case of pedal confusion
>> to me.
>>
>> Ed
>
> IIRC, obd2 can store values like brake pressure....
As Jeff Strickland posted, some vehicles have a separate recording device
that is separate from OBD II. OBD II does not store pedal pressure as most
vehicles do not have a pedal pressure sensor.
BTW, there is another indicator besides discolored brake rotors and black
boxes as to whether the brakes were applied at the time of impact.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply) >> Stay informed about: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways |
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External
Since: Jan 06, 2009
Posts: 22
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Nov 22, 9:33 pm, "Ray O"
wrote:
> "ben91932" wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
> >> How do they know she "vigorously and desperately" applied her brakes
> >> if she diesd in the crash? Sounds like another case of pedal confusion
> >> to me.
>
> >> Ed
>
> > IIRC, obd2 can store values like brake pressure....
>
> As Jeff Strickland posted, some vehicles have a separate recording device
> that is separate from OBD II. OBD II does not store pedal pressure as most
> vehicles do not have a pedal pressure sensor.
>
> BTW, there is another indicator besides discolored brake rotors and black
> boxes as to whether the brakes were applied at the time of impact.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
And that would be...? >> Stay informed about: Don't Blame Floor Mats for Toyota (Lexus) Runaways |
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