Awww Crap. This is why I need a Manual

> Do not switch to synthetic oil if the engine has been run on standard
> oil and also has more than ~60,000 miles on it.

This is an old wive's tale from 'way back when synthetics were new.
I've done it, others I know have done it, no adverse effects at all.
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> I'm a relatively new owner of a 2000 Jetta, Manual, 2.0. I've been
> cruising this group every now and then just to check and see if there
> are any problems I know about and can help with, OR problems that I
> should know about and (hopefully) prevent in my own car. I've noticed
> that several threads mention ONLY using synthetic oil for some VWs. Am
> I supposed to be using synthetic oil? Can that be bought at most gas
> stations? I've never really paid much attention to what kind of oil I
> put in a car - I'm used to driving Honda's or Toyota's and for those
> you simply have to choose between 10W-30 or 10W-40.
> Incidentally, I just put a quart and a half of 10W30 in my Jetta.
> Please tell me I'm not going to have a problem now...

Go ahead and use non-synthetic oil, but follow the manufacturer's
viscosity spec. Your engine is not one of the ones that's really fussy
about oil. 10W30, 10W40, it'll be fine.
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Joseph Meehan wrote:

> That would have been the exception. How old was that Cadillac (model
> year)? Way beck in the early days of synthetic oils, the oils and cars were
> different than today. It is not a problem today. You can switch and mix as
> you like.

2002.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
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pfjw.TakeThisOut@aol.com wrote:
> Brian Running wrote:
>>> Do not switch to synthetic oil if the engine has been run on
>>> standard oil and also has more than ~60,000 miles on it.
>>
>> This is an old wive's tale from 'way back when synthetics were new.
>> I've done it, others I know have done it, no adverse effects at all.
>
> Well, my neighbor's Cadillac (at 47K miles) lost 3 quarts on a 60 mile
> trip after the change. Went back to standard oil, no leaking at all.
> My son-in-law tried it with his Land Cruiser (earlier model) at 78,000
> miles, and dropped enough in his driveway at idle that he switched
> back, again without further leakage. This was March and July of this
> year, respectively.

That would have been the exception. How old was that Cadillac (model
year)? Way beck in the early days of synthetic oils, the oils and cars were
different than today. It is not a problem today. You can switch and mix as
you like.

>
> Old wives seldom discuss oil options anyway.
>
> Peter Wieck
> Wyncote, PA

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit
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"Brian Running" wrote in message

>> I'm a relatively new owner of a 2000 Jetta, Manual, 2.0. I've been
>> cruising this group every now and then just to check and see if there
>> are any problems I know about and can help with, OR problems that I
>> should know about and (hopefully) prevent in my own car. I've noticed
>> that several threads mention ONLY using synthetic oil for some VWs. Am
>> I supposed to be using synthetic oil? Can that be bought at most gas
>> stations? I've never really paid much attention to what kind of oil I
>> put in a car - I'm used to driving Honda's or Toyota's and for those
>> you simply have to choose between 10W-30 or 10W-40.
>> Incidentally, I just put a quart and a half of 10W30 in my Jetta.
>> Please tell me I'm not going to have a problem now...
>
> Go ahead and use non-synthetic oil, but follow the manufacturer's
> viscosity spec. Your engine is not one of the ones that's really fussy
> about oil. 10W30, 10W40, it'll be fine.

The 2.0 isn't a particularly high compression engine nor is it a
turbo...it's VW bread-and-butter engine for the time. Standard oil should
be fine.

I will say FWIW that last time I brought my Eurovan in for service I opted
to switch to synthetic oil and was told that once you go synthetic you
cannot switch back to dino. Also, after you have switched to synthetic, in
an emergency (like you are waaay low on oil enough so the pressure is too
low, light comes on , etc.) you can use dino oil in a pinch if synthetic
isn't available but when you get home, next available opportunity, etc. you
should get the oil changed (back to all synthetic).
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pfjw.DeleteThis@aol.com wrote:
> Joseph Meehan wrote:
>
>> That would have been the exception. How old was that Cadillac
>> (model year)? Way beck in the early days of synthetic oils, the
>> oils and cars were different than today. It is not a problem today.
>> You can switch and mix as you like.
>
> 2002.

I suspect it was not related and there was some other problem like maybe
a loose oil filter.


>
> Peter Wieck
> Wyncote, PA

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit
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> I will say FWIW that last time I brought my Eurovan in for service I opted
> to switch to synthetic oil and was told that once you go synthetic you
> cannot switch back to dino.

People say all kinds of things. I don't believe it's true. If someone
could explain a logical, scientific reason why this might be true, I'd
give it a fair hearing. But so far, it's nothing but the rumors and
hearsay of mechanics, who, let's face it, tend to be a little
unscientific in their beliefs.
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For my 2 cents I'd add that when switching to synthetic,
make sure to change it again after like 3-4 months in case
a lot of gunk comes loose. Switching to Synth may cause that.
I've switched 3 Jettas over all with the basic 8v engine.

Also get the good filters, the Mann or other OEM equivalent,
has a check valve that keeps some oil up in the engine, something
that can prolong engine life, especially in cold climates.

IRv
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IR wrote:

> Also get the good filters, the Mann or other OEM equivalent,
> has a check valve that keeps some oil up in the engine, something
> that can prolong engine life, especially in cold climates.

Definitely get "good" filters. A few bucks now vs. many bucks later.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
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> For my 2 cents I'd add that when switching to synthetic,
> make sure to change it again after like 3-4 months in case
> a lot of gunk comes loose. Switching to Synth may cause that.

How? What gunk? Why would synthetic oil suddenly knock it all loose?

> Also get the good filters, the Mann or other OEM equivalent,
> has a check valve that keeps some oil up in the engine, something
> that can prolong engine life, especially in cold climates.

In my informal research, I found that Mobil 1 oil filters consistently
get the best ratings, so that's what I use. They're made by Champion,
but to Mobil's specs, and they're very different from other
Champion-made filters. NAPA's top-of-the-line filters also get good marks.
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Brian Running wrote:

> How? What gunk? Why would synthetic oil suddenly knock it all loose?

Synthetic oils are thinner (but with a higher film-strength) than
standard oils. And their nature allows them to go where other oils
typically don't. If you are old enough to remember the "old days" when
one could actually purchase non-detergent oils, you will understand
what now goes on.

"Detergent" oils have additives that keep wear-particles, ash, crud,
varnish and general junk in suspension such that the oil filter can
catch them when they get big enough. Otherwise, each time you turned
off the engine, all the crud would settle to to the bottom of the sump,
or anywhere else that oil sits. To some extent, this still happens.
Again, "Detergents" have *nothing* to do with what you use on your
clothes or your dishes... they are particle suspension-additives only.

Again, back in the day, if one switched from non-detergent to detergent
oil, one had to change the oil within 200-300 miles or all that crud
would be distributed through the engine with serious effects. And, well
into the 70s, VW (for one) was making engines with no oil filters, go
figure.

So, now you switch, after years, to a synthetic oil. What crud was
missed by your standard detergent oil and your oil filter will be freed
and raised by the *thinner* synthetic oil. This is stuff (remember)
that was not kept suspended by the regular oil and/or was not caught by
the filter. Either too big or too small or too heavy. And as there are
still many who believe in the concept of the "10-minute Oil Change,
there are a great many engines where such accretions are the norm
rather than the exception.

So, if you do switch after years of "regular" oil, switch again at
~3000 miles or so to get rid of the crud. Why? Keep in mind that oil
systems have pressure-relief valves (or should) that allow oil to flow
in the case of a clogged filter by *bypassing* the filter. Not a good
idea for any length of time.

Very few people (relative to all things) keep cars until the cumulative
effects of neglect become manifest. Or dump them the moment they do so.
It is important that the second-fifth owner of any given vehicle
understand that what they inherit rarely has had 'ideal' maintenance.

Which reminds me... I am going to poll the group on a bit of
semi-obscure maintenance and look for a "show of hands".


Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
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Brian Running wrote:

> You're assuming that synthetic oil, by virtue alone of being "thinner"
> (which is not true) cleans better than the detergent additives in
> mineral oil. I'm not buying that.

Um... show me a mineral-based oil that is 0Wanything.

Next, consider film properties and film strength, especially as a
function of the above.

Then consider overall uniformity of synthetic vs. mineral (as it
contributes to viscosity break-down, especially), also as a function of
the above.

If these issues were the same or virtually the same, there would be no
advantage to synthetics over mineral. It is these advantages (if
admitted) that suggest strongly that one do a short-interval change
immediately after a switch to synthetic.

Of course there is crud in an engine. Less crud with good maintenance,
more with not-so-good. Less crud if each engine is allowed to drain for
say.... 30 minutes (at least) during a change *and* the oil was changed
warm than if done either cold or under "Jiffy Lube" conditions.

On that last, note that New Car Manufacturers approve Jiffy Lube. They
do want to sell cars, and modern engines (with modern fuels) will
survive about anything until the warranty expires. But if you want to
truly understand the issue between Synthetics and Mineral Oils, look at
the history of Mercedes and their early versions of the 3.2 liter V6
that had defective piston rings... which were almost OK on synthetic
oil but failed early and often on mineral oil.

Do you have a magnetic drain plug in your sump? That is also a very
revealing exercise.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
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> So, now you switch, after years, to a synthetic oil. What crud was
> missed by your standard detergent oil and your oil filter will be freed
> and raised by the *thinner* synthetic oil. This is stuff (remember)
> that was not kept suspended by the regular oil and/or was not caught by
> the filter. Either too big or too small or too heavy.

I don't believe it. I'd like to hear some evidence that this really
happens.

You're assuming that synthetic oil, by virtue alone of being "thinner"
(which is not true) cleans better than the detergent additives in
mineral oil. I'm not buying that.

You're also assuming that every engine that's used mineral oil has
"crud" accumulated in it. I'm not buying that, either. If an engine
has "crud" in it, it's not because of the type of oil used, it's because
the owner didn't maintain properly. When was the last time you actually
found "crud" in a well-maintained engine?

If detergent additives are what's responsible for oil's ability to keep
particles suspended for the filter to catch them (and they are), then
how could a "thinner" oil keep those "too big/too small/too heavy"
particles suspended any better? Isn't it the detergent additives in
synthetic oil that does that? (Yes.)

There's too much tendency among car guys to accept old wives' tales
without thinking.
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