Need Advice

Jim C wrote:
> I have an 89 LX 5.0 convertible 5 spd. I'm having a problem, and
> wanted some advice, and maybe a pep talk. I'm trying to keep this car
> running, on a tight budget, with a kid in college, and another in
> private school...
>
> Here's the problem: I have no heat, and a low coolant level.
> Everytime I top up the coolant, it bubbles over out of the overflow,
> like a pot boiling over. I thought overheating, but even when it
> bubbles over, the heat blows cold. My theory is head gasket. Does
> this seem sound? Is there something else it could be, and is there a
> definitive test I could do myself, with basic tools? (I don't have a
> gauge set for a compression test. If that would be definitive, I
> might buy a set)

Have you checked the thermostat? Usually a bad thermostat will not open
and therefore not allow coolant to flow through the system. This would
not allow heated water to the heater core and cause that symptom.
Thermostats are cheap and easy to replace. You might also want to
replace the radiator cap since it is cheap too but I doubt this is the
problem

> Next, if it is a head gasket, is that a possible do - it - myself for
> an average home mechanic? Just to give an idea of my skill level, I
> have done typical bolt-ons, power steering, radiator, fan clutch,
> belts, etc myself comfortably. It seems pretty straightforward -
> remove the intake and fuel rails, remove the head bolts and header
> bolts, pull, scrape, add gasket, reassemble; but I know it's never as
> simple as all that. The vacuum connections, all the 'gak' on the top
> of this motor and any possible valve work scares me. I don't mind
> paying a mechanic when the job is over my head, but this would be
> expensive, and I'm not sure if this is over my head or not.

If you have a head gasket problem there would be obvious signs like
steam coming out the tail pipes or coolant in the oil, oil in the
coolant or coolant leaking from the head gaskets. Also, the engine
would likely be missing. Something like a misfire. you can also take
to a garage and they can use coated paper strips to see if you have any
hydrocarbons (i.e. oil or exhaust gases) in the coolant. If it shows
positive then that might indicate a head gasket problem.

> Thoughts?

Another thing it might be is a clogged radiator. If the coolant can't
flow freely from one side to the other then the engine will overheat.
You can get them cleaned but many times it is cheaper to buy a new one
from Autozone etc.

> By the way, if I did it myself, I'd look for other likely failure
> items to replace to save myself time and $$ down the road, and for
> performance parts I could add where I've already done the
> disassembly. The biggest candidate there would be an intake, since
> I'd be removing the existing one, and would feel better spending that
> money, if I saved the head gasket labor. What are some other things I
> could look at?

If you go to the extent of removing the heads then only your wallet will
limit your options. For the 302 engines I don't think it pays to just
install an intake and leave the stock heads in place. If you really
want to do something worthwhile then get one of the head/intake/cam
kits. This will give you some real performance you can feel. I don't
recommend doing much to a 5.0L engine unless the heads are changed. The
stock heads are really the bottle neck for flow on the Fox Mustangs.
 >> Stay informed about: Need Advice 

"Jim C" wrote in message

>I have an 89 LX 5.0 convertible 5 spd. I'm having a problem, and
> wanted some advice, and maybe a pep talk. I'm trying to keep this car
> running, on a tight budget, with a kid in college, and another in
> private school...
>
> Here's the problem: I have no heat, and a low coolant level.
> Everytime I top up the coolant, it bubbles over out of the overflow,
> like a pot boiling over. I thought overheating, but even when it
> bubbles over, the heat blows cold. My theory is head gasket. Does
> this seem sound? Is there something else it could be, and is there a
> definitive test I could do myself, with basic tools? (I don't have a
> gauge set for a compression test. If that would be definitive, I
> might buy a set)
>
> Next, if it is a head gasket, is that a possible do - it - myself for
> an average home mechanic? Just to give an idea of my skill level, I
> have done typical bolt-ons, power steering, radiator, fan clutch,
> belts, etc myself comfortably. It seems pretty straightforward -
> remove the intake and fuel rails, remove the head bolts and header
> bolts, pull, scrape, add gasket, reassemble; but I know it's never as
> simple as all that. The vacuum connections, all the 'gak' on the top
> of this motor and any possible valve work scares me. I don't mind
> paying a mechanic when the job is over my head, but this would be
> expensive, and I'm not sure if this is over my head or not.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> By the way, if I did it myself, I'd look for other likely failure
> items to replace to save myself time and $$ down the road, and for
> performance parts I could add where I've already done the
> disassembly. The biggest candidate there would be an intake, since
> I'd be removing the existing one, and would feel better spending that
> money, if I saved the head gasket labor. What are some other things I
> could look at?

Was also thinking the heater core? These things are notorious for failing
on the Foxes. They are also a b*tch to replace. But, its something to look
at as well as the things Mr. Johnson suggested.

Just a thought.

Dane
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Check the spark plugs. My leaking head gasket was obvious. 7 normal
plugs and one coated with white gunk.

G
 >> Stay informed about: Need Advice 

Sounds like you have about the same skill level I have. I replaced
the head gasket on my 65 289 and it worked out. My main worry was that
there was something wrong such as a warped head that I wouldnt catch.

G
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"Jim C" wrote in message

>I have an 89 LX 5.0 convertible 5 spd. I'm having a problem, and
> wanted some advice, and maybe a pep talk. I'm trying to keep this car
> running, on a tight budget, with a kid in college, and another in
> private school...
>
> Here's the problem: I have no heat, and a low coolant level.

no heat => could be the control wire fell off the lever on the heater box,
just under the dash on passenger side, I had an 87 5.0 where it would work
itself off about every 1000 miles.
Easy to check, this it is on the side facing the passenger


> Everytime I top up the coolant, it bubbles over out of the overflow,
> like a pot boiling over. I thought overheating, but even when it
> bubbles over, the heat blows cold. My theory is head gasket. Does
> this seem sound? Is there something else it could be, and is there a
> definitive test I could do myself, with basic tools? (I don't have a
> gauge set for a compression test. If that would be definitive, I
> might buy a set)

Check the color of your plugs, on-line pix of plugs, called reading the
plugs.
check for greasy water
have someone watch with the cap off
replace cap
replace thermostat

then think about head gasket, maybe

>
> Next, if it is a head gasket, is that a possible do - it - myself for
> an average home mechanic? Just to give an idea of my skill level, I
> have done typical bolt-ons, power steering, radiator, fan clutch,
> belts, etc myself comfortably. It seems pretty straightforward -
> remove the intake and fuel rails, remove the head bolts and header
> bolts, pull, scrape, add gasket, reassemble; but I know it's never as
> simple as all that. The vacuum connections, all the 'gak' on the top
> of this motor and any possible valve work scares me. I don't mind
> paying a mechanic when the job is over my head, but this would be
> expensive, and I'm not sure if this is over my head or not.



>
> Thoughts?
>
> By the way, if I did it myself, I'd look for other likely failure
> items to replace to save myself time and $$ down the road, and for
> performance parts I could add where I've already done the
> disassembly. The biggest candidate there would be an intake, since
> I'd be removing the existing one, and would feel better spending that
> money, if I saved the head gasket labor. What are some other things I
> could look at?

I would put a Keene Bell blower on it myself.

-87 5.0
-93 5.0 8# KB and tuned, fast
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SaleenDriver wrote:
> "Jim C" wrote in message
>
>> I have an 89 LX 5.0 convertible 5 spd. I'm having a problem, and
>> wanted some advice, and maybe a pep talk. I'm trying to keep this car
>> running, on a tight budget, with a kid in college, and another in
>> private school...
>>
>> Here's the problem: I have no heat, and a low coolant level.
>> Everytime I top up the coolant, it bubbles over out of the overflow,
>> like a pot boiling over. I thought overheating, but even when it
>> bubbles over, the heat blows cold. My theory is head gasket. Does
>> this seem sound? Is there something else it could be, and is there a
>> definitive test I could do myself, with basic tools? (I don't have a
>> gauge set for a compression test. If that would be definitive, I
>> might buy a set)
>>
>> Next, if it is a head gasket, is that a possible do - it - myself for
>> an average home mechanic? Just to give an idea of my skill level, I
>> have done typical bolt-ons, power steering, radiator, fan clutch,
>> belts, etc myself comfortably. It seems pretty straightforward -
>> remove the intake and fuel rails, remove the head bolts and header
>> bolts, pull, scrape, add gasket, reassemble; but I know it's never as
>> simple as all that. The vacuum connections, all the 'gak' on the top
>> of this motor and any possible valve work scares me. I don't mind
>> paying a mechanic when the job is over my head, but this would be
>> expensive, and I'm not sure if this is over my head or not.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> By the way, if I did it myself, I'd look for other likely failure
>> items to replace to save myself time and $$ down the road, and for
>> performance parts I could add where I've already done the
>> disassembly. The biggest candidate there would be an intake, since
>> I'd be removing the existing one, and would feel better spending that
>> money, if I saved the head gasket labor. What are some other things I
>> could look at?
>
> Was also thinking the heater core? These things are notorious for
> failing on the Foxes. They are also a b*tch to replace. But, its
> something to look at as well as the things Mr. Johnson suggested.
>
> Just a thought.

Most times when a heater core goes bad you can smell the coolant inside
the car and the windshield will fog up horribly. Also, they likely
would cause a complete blockage of the cooling system like he is
describing. You are right though about them being a PITA to replace.
If there is one job worth paying to have done that is it.
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"Michael Johnson" wrote in message

> SaleenDriver wrote:
>> "Jim C" wrote in message
>>
>>> I have an 89 LX 5.0 convertible 5 spd. I'm having a problem, and
>>> wanted some advice, and maybe a pep talk. I'm trying to keep this car
>>> running, on a tight budget, with a kid in college, and another in
>>> private school...
>>>
>>> Here's the problem: I have no heat, and a low coolant level.
>>> Everytime I top up the coolant, it bubbles over out of the overflow,
>>> like a pot boiling over. I thought overheating, but even when it
>>> bubbles over, the heat blows cold. My theory is head gasket. Does
>>> this seem sound? Is there something else it could be, and is there a
>>> definitive test I could do myself, with basic tools? (I don't have a
>>> gauge set for a compression test. If that would be definitive, I
>>> might buy a set)
>>>
>>> Next, if it is a head gasket, is that a possible do - it - myself for
>>> an average home mechanic? Just to give an idea of my skill level, I
>>> have done typical bolt-ons, power steering, radiator, fan clutch,
>>> belts, etc myself comfortably. It seems pretty straightforward -
>>> remove the intake and fuel rails, remove the head bolts and header
>>> bolts, pull, scrape, add gasket, reassemble; but I know it's never as
>>> simple as all that. The vacuum connections, all the 'gak' on the top
>>> of this motor and any possible valve work scares me. I don't mind
>>> paying a mechanic when the job is over my head, but this would be
>>> expensive, and I'm not sure if this is over my head or not.
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> By the way, if I did it myself, I'd look for other likely failure
>>> items to replace to save myself time and $$ down the road, and for
>>> performance parts I could add where I've already done the
>>> disassembly. The biggest candidate there would be an intake, since
>>> I'd be removing the existing one, and would feel better spending that
>>> money, if I saved the head gasket labor. What are some other things I
>>> could look at?
>>
>> Was also thinking the heater core? These things are notorious for
>> failing on the Foxes. They are also a b*tch to replace. But, its
>> something to look at as well as the things Mr. Johnson suggested.
>>
>> Just a thought.
>
> Most times when a heater core goes bad you can smell the coolant inside
> the car and the windshield will fog up horribly. Also, they likely would
> cause a complete blockage of the cooling system like he is describing.
> You are right though about them being a PITA to replace. If there is one
> job worth paying to have done that is it.

core goes out about 100k to 130k or so
Green liquid inside or just outside the firewall
you have to open up the plastic air box, then tack weld the plastic back
together, it was not really ment to be opened and replaced
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Jim C wrote:
> Thank you all for your replies, especially Mr. Johnson, for his
> detailed reply. I have replaced the thermostat, radiator, and all
> hoses within the last eighteen months, so I lean away from them being
> the problem, although I replaced the hoses with the Ford Motorsport
> 'Hi-Milers', and the fit was a b*tch. I wonder if a kinked hose could
> cause my symptoms. I haven't had a wet passenger side footwell,
> fogged windshield, or coolant smell, so wishful thinking tells me the
> core is okay. If it was bad, that's one I would be more than happy to
> pay my mechanic to do.
>
> What disturbed me the most, and pointed me toward the head gasket was
> the 'bubbling over'. In my mind's eye, that's exhaust gases escaping
> into the water jacket, and venting / bubbling out through the overflow
> coolant bottle. However, there's no 'milkshaked' oil, or apparent oil
> in the coolant. Maybe this one is worth sending to my shop for
> diagnosis, then deciding whether they should fix it or I should. For
> what it's worth, I have a great mechanic here in Wilmington, DE, who
> 'gets' my modest build-up, and is happy to tell me when I can do a job
> myself, or if it's best left to him. Email me for a referral if
> anyone's interested in this area.

I have had head gaskets blow where no coolant go into the oil so I
wouldn't rule it out just on this alone. That is why I said to do the
hydrocarbon test because it will detect oil and/or residuals from
exhaust gases present in the coolant. The test takes all of 15 seconds.

> Any thoughts on the relative difficulty of the head gasket job,
> though? Even though I'm going to get it professionally diagnosed, I'm
> curious. I found a good article from Mustang Monthly at
> http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/5892/index.html, and I've also
> seen suggestions to use new head bolts, and to have the heads
> inspected / surfaced. The scary part in the article above is cleaning
> the gasket surfaces. That seems like a great chance for someone to
> gouge the heads / decks and mating surfaces their first time through.

I have replaced the head gaskets on my car several times (comes from
running 16 psi of boost) and it isn't too bad. Take PLENTY of
photographs as you go through the disassembly process. These photos are
invaluable as you start reassembly. Also, keep meticulous track of all
the parts. Make sure the rods, rocker arms etc. go back in the same
locations if you reuse them. check the plane on the heads and block.
If there is any warping then you need to get them planed. If it occurs,
then it usually happens on the heads. I would suggest getting the heads
plained anyway. It will give you a little more compression and
therefore a little more power. You should also check the compression
rates of the valve springs. They can vary wildly over time and if they
need replaced now is the time to do it. Maybe look into doing some port
matching between the heads, intake and headers. Sanding the air
pathways will also improve power output for little money. Actually,
rebuilding the heads completely isn't a bad idea if you are keeping the
stock parts.

My bet is you can do the job but just take things slow and methodical.
Document parts and keep track of where they they came from. It isn't a
hard job to do, just a little tedious. Also, get a good manual with
torque specs for bolts and have a couple of torque wrenches on had to
torque the critical bolts to specs. You'll need one for the large bolts
and another one for the smaller ones.

One last thing is to do a thorough compression test before you start.
If the short block needs work then doing all the upper engine work will
be a waste of time. There are ways to determine if compression loss is
due to the heads or piston rings. In the old days we would do a test
normally and then shoot higher viscosity oil into the combustion chamber
through the spark plug hole and run another test. This will seal the
rings better on the compression stroke of that cylinder. If the second
test showed much higher compression than the first then there is a good
chance the cylinder walls were scored or the rings were bad for that
cylinder. Don't fill the chamber with oil though and do this on a warm
engine.
 >> Stay informed about: Need Advice 

"Michael Johnson" wrote in message

> Jim C wrote:
>> Thank you all for your replies, especially Mr. Johnson, for his
>> detailed reply. I have replaced the thermostat, radiator, and all
>> hoses within the last eighteen months, so I lean away from them being
>> the problem, although I replaced the hoses with the Ford Motorsport
>> 'Hi-Milers', and the fit was a b*tch. I wonder if a kinked hose could
>> cause my symptoms. I haven't had a wet passenger side footwell,
>> fogged windshield, or coolant smell, so wishful thinking tells me the
>> core is okay. If it was bad, that's one I would be more than happy to
>> pay my mechanic to do.
>>
>> What disturbed me the most, and pointed me toward the head gasket was
>> the 'bubbling over'. In my mind's eye, that's exhaust gases escaping
>> into the water jacket, and venting / bubbling out through the overflow
>> coolant bottle. However, there's no 'milkshaked' oil, or apparent oil
>> in the coolant. Maybe this one is worth sending to my shop for
>> diagnosis, then deciding whether they should fix it or I should. For
>> what it's worth, I have a great mechanic here in Wilmington, DE, who
>> 'gets' my modest build-up, and is happy to tell me when I can do a job
>> myself, or if it's best left to him. Email me for a referral if
>> anyone's interested in this area.
>
> I have had head gaskets blow where no coolant go into the oil so I
> wouldn't rule it out just on this alone. That is why I said to do the
> hydrocarbon test because it will detect oil and/or residuals from exhaust
> gases present in the coolant. The test takes all of 15 seconds.
>
>> Any thoughts on the relative difficulty of the head gasket job,
>> though? Even though I'm going to get it professionally diagnosed, I'm
>> curious. I found a good article from Mustang Monthly at
>> http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/5892/index.html, and I've also
>> seen suggestions to use new head bolts, and to have the heads
>> inspected / surfaced. The scary part in the article above is cleaning
>> the gasket surfaces. That seems like a great chance for someone to
>> gouge the heads / decks and mating surfaces their first time through.
>
> I have replaced the head gaskets on my car several times (comes from
> running 16 psi of boost) and it isn't too bad. Take PLENTY of photographs
> as you go through the disassembly process. These photos are invaluable as
> you start reassembly. Also, keep meticulous track of all the parts. Make
> sure the rods, rocker arms etc. go back in the same locations if you reuse
> them. check the plane on the heads and block. If there is any warping
> then you need to get them planed. If it occurs, then it usually happens
> on the heads. I would suggest getting the heads plained anyway. It will
> give you a little more compression and therefore a little more power. You
> should also check the compression rates of the valve springs. They can
> vary wildly over time and if they need replaced now is the time to do it.
> Maybe look into doing some port matching between the heads, intake and
> headers. Sanding the air pathways will also improve power output for
> little money. Actually, rebuilding the heads completely isn't a bad idea
> if you are keeping the stock parts.
>
> My bet is you can do the job but just take things slow and methodical.
> Document parts and keep track of where they they came from. It isn't a
> hard job to do, just a little tedious. Also, get a good manual with
> torque specs for bolts and have a couple of torque wrenches on had to
> torque the critical bolts to specs. You'll need one for the large bolts
> and another one for the smaller ones.
>
> One last thing is to do a thorough compression test before you start. If
> the short block needs work then doing all the upper engine work will be a
> waste of time. There are ways to determine if compression loss is due to
> the heads or piston rings. In the old days we would do a test normally
> and then shoot higher viscosity oil into the combustion chamber through
> the spark plug hole and run another test. This will seal the rings better
> on the compression stroke of that cylinder. If the second test showed
> much higher compression than the first then there is a good chance the
> cylinder walls were scored or the rings were bad for that cylinder. Don't
> fill the chamber with oil though and do this on a warm engine.

Watch out for the thickness of the gasket, you can change compression up or
down via thickness of gasket.
If you put on a blower, increase thickness of gasket to lower compression
some.

I would check compression on all cylinders first and see if they read in the
40 to 50 range, they all need to be within about 10% of each other, if you
have a high one, like 57 or above, you may have too much carbon built-up
inside the cylinder, so..... rebuild time ? or if you have low compression,
leaky rings or valves etc.

Good luck, the 5.0 is a Great Car!
 >> Stay informed about: Need Advice 

And those with auto trannys, dont be surprised if Radiator trans cooler
fails and mixes trans fluid in your radiator water.Talk about an attention
grabber!And dont tell me it cant happen,My E-150 with a 5.0 HO (yes,HO)
exhibited these symptoms.trans wasnt hurt,pressure greater on trans side I
guess.
"gernic" wrote in message

>
> "Jim C" wrote in message
>
> >I have an 89 LX 5.0 convertible 5 spd. I'm having a problem, and
> > wanted some advice, and maybe a pep talk. I'm trying to keep this car
> > running, on a tight budget, with a kid in college, and another in
> > private school...
> >
> > Here's the problem: I have no heat, and a low coolant level.
>
> no heat => could be the control wire fell off the lever on the heater box,
> just under the dash on passenger side, I had an 87 5.0 where it would
work
> itself off about every 1000 miles.
> Easy to check, this it is on the side facing the passenger
>
>
> > Everytime I top up the coolant, it bubbles over out of the overflow,
> > like a pot boiling over. I thought overheating, but even when it
> > bubbles over, the heat blows cold. My theory is head gasket. Does
> > this seem sound? Is there something else it could be, and is there a
> > definitive test I could do myself, with basic tools? (I don't have a
> > gauge set for a compression test. If that would be definitive, I
> > might buy a set)
>
> Check the color of your plugs, on-line pix of plugs, called reading the
> plugs.
> check for greasy water
> have someone watch with the cap off
> replace cap
> replace thermostat
>
> then think about head gasket, maybe
>
> >
> > Next, if it is a head gasket, is that a possible do - it - myself for
> > an average home mechanic? Just to give an idea of my skill level, I
> > have done typical bolt-ons, power steering, radiator, fan clutch,
> > belts, etc myself comfortably. It seems pretty straightforward -
> > remove the intake and fuel rails, remove the head bolts and header
> > bolts, pull, scrape, add gasket, reassemble; but I know it's never as
> > simple as all that. The vacuum connections, all the 'gak' on the top
> > of this motor and any possible valve work scares me. I don't mind
> > paying a mechanic when the job is over my head, but this would be
> > expensive, and I'm not sure if this is over my head or not.
>
>
>
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > By the way, if I did it myself, I'd look for other likely failure
> > items to replace to save myself time and $$ down the road, and for
> > performance parts I could add where I've already done the
> > disassembly. The biggest candidate there would be an intake, since
> > I'd be removing the existing one, and would feel better spending that
> > money, if I saved the head gasket labor. What are some other things I
> > could look at?
>
> I would put a Keene Bell blower on it myself.
>
> -87 5.0
> -93 5.0 8# KB and tuned, fast
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Need Advice 

what is even more of an attention grabber is when the harmonic balancer goes
out!


"scott and barb" wrote in message

> And those with auto trannys, dont be surprised if Radiator trans cooler
> fails and mixes trans fluid in your radiator water.Talk about an attention
> grabber!And dont tell me it cant happen,My E-150 with a 5.0 HO (yes,HO)
> exhibited these symptoms.trans wasnt hurt,pressure greater on trans side I
> guess.
> "gernic" wrote in message
>
>>
 >> Stay informed about: Need Advice 

Michael Johnson wrote in
KdevMnj_anZ2dnUVZ_vShnZ2d DeleteThis @giganews.com:

> For the 302 engines I don't think it pays to just
> install an intake and leave the stock heads in place.

mmmmmmmmm.... GT40 heads.........
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elaich wrote:
> Michael Johnson wrote in
> KdevMnj_anZ2dnUVZ_vShnZ2d RemoveThis @giganews.com:
>
>> For the 302 engines I don't think it pays to just
>> install an intake and leave the stock heads in place.
>
> mmmmmmmmm.... GT40 heads.........

I have them and they are OK but IMO there are better choices unless you
want to stay with Ford parts. AFR makes some very good heads for one.
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