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Next: Please help me go on honeymoon again
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External
Since: Oct 27, 2007
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:53 am
Post subject: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve?
Archived from groups: rec>autos>makers>vw>watercooled (more info?)
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Hello folks,
I have an '85 GTI with an '87 16v engine that won't start. It sat for
a year or more and had the old gas pumped through the system, although
now I've drained it and replaced it with clean gas + fuel system
cleaner.
While the problem really could be anything, there are two questions
I'm working on at this point and would appreciate any insights.
1 - When cranking, I get fuel going through the line to the cold start
valve but am not seeing any output from the valve itself. I couldn't
get any flow while running the CSV test in the Bentley, and it seems
that the coolant temp sensor is functioning. I've soaked the CSV input/
output in Seafoam cleaner... is there any way to force the valve open
to verify whether it is indeed clogged?
2 - The fuel distributor is only sending gas to the CSV -- I'm not
getting any flow out of the other four injector outlets on the
distributor body. I've tried cranking with the air flow sensor in
various positions, but I still only get flow to the CSV port. Should
there be flow to the others?
Thanks so much for any help. I suspect that there may be some vacuum
and electrical gremlins... the car was sitting in an rat-prone area.
I'd love to just narrow this down piece by piece.
All best,
Nathan |
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External
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Posts: 54
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:50 am
Post subject: Re: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Nathan" <allegro DeleteThis @gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1193446426.568403.325410@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Hello folks,
>
> I have an '85 GTI with an '87 16v engine that won't start. It sat for
> a year or more and had the old gas pumped through the system, although
> now I've drained it and replaced it with clean gas + fuel system
> cleaner.
>
> While the problem really could be anything, there are two questions
> I'm working on at this point and would appreciate any insights.
>
> 1 - When cranking, I get fuel going through the line to the cold start
> valve but am not seeing any output from the valve itself. I couldn't
> get any flow while running the CSV test in the Bentley, and it seems
> that the coolant temp sensor is functioning. I've soaked the CSV input/
> output in Seafoam cleaner... is there any way to force the valve open
> to verify whether it is indeed clogged?
>
> 2 - The fuel distributor is only sending gas to the CSV -- I'm not
> getting any flow out of the other four injector outlets on the
> distributor body. I've tried cranking with the air flow sensor in
> various positions, but I still only get flow to the CSV port. Should
> there be flow to the others?
>
> Thanks so much for any help. I suspect that there may be some vacuum
> and electrical gremlins... the car was sitting in an rat-prone area.
> I'd love to just narrow this down piece by piece.
>
> All best,
> Nathan
>
The cold start valve is controlled by a thermo time switch. This means it's
getting only power for a certain time (seconds) and if the coolant
temperature is below a certain threshold. Do you have +12V a couple of
seconds at the valve while cranking?
SFC |
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External
Since: Oct 27, 2007
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:51 pm
Post subject: Re: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Oct 27, 4:56 am, "SFC" <sf-cill....DeleteThis@hetnet.nl> wrote:
> "Nathan" <alle....DeleteThis@gmail.com> schreef in berichtnews:1193446426.568403.325410@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hello folks,
>
> > I have an '85 GTI with an '87 16v engine that won't start. It sat for
> > a year or more and had the old gas pumped through the system, although
> > now I've drained it and replaced it with clean gas + fuel system
> > cleaner.
>
> > While the problem really could be anything, there are two questions
> > I'm working on at this point and would appreciate any insights.
>
> > 1 - When cranking, I get fuel going through the line to the cold start
> > valve but am not seeing any output from the valve itself. I couldn't
> > get any flow while running the CSV test in the Bentley, and it seems
> > that the coolant temp sensor is functioning. I've soaked the CSV input/
> > output in Seafoam cleaner... is there any way to force the valve open
> > to verify whether it is indeed clogged?
>
> > 2 - The fuel distributor is only sending gas to the CSV -- I'm not
> > getting any flow out of the other four injector outlets on the
> > distributor body. I've tried cranking with the air flow sensor in
> > various positions, but I still only get flow to the CSV port. Should
> > there be flow to the others?
>
> > Thanks so much for any help. I suspect that there may be some vacuum
> > and electrical gremlins... the car was sitting in an rat-prone area.
> > I'd love to just narrow this down piece by piece.
>
> > All best,
> > Nathan
>
> The cold start valve is controlled by a thermo time switch. This means it's
> getting only power for a certain time (seconds) and if the coolant
> temperature is below a certain threshold. Do you have +12V a couple of
> seconds at the valve while cranking?
>
> SFC
Nope.. I'm seeing zero volts at the cold start valve harness.
Continuity seems fine between the thermo time switch harness and the
csv, and the coolant is probably about 55 degrees F, so I suppose that
means the switch is busted (or the ground is bad?). Any suggestions
for jumpering the switch to verify the operation of the valve? If I'll
be placing an order, might as well catch all I can this go round...
Also, any insights regarding the behavior of the fuel distributor?
While cranking, it's only routing fuel to the cold start valve and not
to any of the four injectors.
Thanks again for the help,
Nathan >> Stay informed about: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve? |
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External
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Posts: 54
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:51 am
Post subject: Re: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Nathan" <allegro.RemoveThis@gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1193529773.666931.276280@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 27, 4:56 am, "SFC" <sf-cill....RemoveThis@hetnet.nl> wrote:
>> "Nathan" <alle....RemoveThis@gmail.com> schreef in
>> berichtnews:1193446426.568403.325410@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Hello folks,
>>
>> > I have an '85 GTI with an '87 16v engine that won't start. It sat for
>> > a year or more and had the old gas pumped through the system, although
>> > now I've drained it and replaced it with clean gas + fuel system
>> > cleaner.
>>
>> > While the problem really could be anything, there are two questions
>> > I'm working on at this point and would appreciate any insights.
>>
>> > 1 - When cranking, I get fuel going through the line to the cold start
>> > valve but am not seeing any output from the valve itself. I couldn't
>> > get any flow while running the CSV test in the Bentley, and it seems
>> > that the coolant temp sensor is functioning. I've soaked the CSV input/
>> > output in Seafoam cleaner... is there any way to force the valve open
>> > to verify whether it is indeed clogged?
>>
>> > 2 - The fuel distributor is only sending gas to the CSV -- I'm not
>> > getting any flow out of the other four injector outlets on the
>> > distributor body. I've tried cranking with the air flow sensor in
>> > various positions, but I still only get flow to the CSV port. Should
>> > there be flow to the others?
>>
>> > Thanks so much for any help. I suspect that there may be some vacuum
>> > and electrical gremlins... the car was sitting in an rat-prone area.
>> > I'd love to just narrow this down piece by piece.
>>
>> > All best,
>> > Nathan
>>
>> The cold start valve is controlled by a thermo time switch. This means
>> it's
>> getting only power for a certain time (seconds) and if the coolant
>> temperature is below a certain threshold. Do you have +12V a couple of
>> seconds at the valve while cranking?
>>
>> SFC
>
> Nope.. I'm seeing zero volts at the cold start valve harness.
> Continuity seems fine between the thermo time switch harness and the
> csv, and the coolant is probably about 55 degrees F, so I suppose that
> means the switch is busted (or the ground is bad?). Any suggestions
> for jumpering the switch to verify the operation of the valve? If I'll
> be placing an order, might as well catch all I can this go round...
>
> Also, any insights regarding the behavior of the fuel distributor?
> While cranking, it's only routing fuel to the cold start valve and not
> to any of the four injectors.
>
> Thanks again for the help,
> Nathan
>
The tts switches the csv to ground. So one terminal (black wire) of the csv
connector should have +12v while cranking. What I always used to do was to
remove the fuel pump relay and put a jumper wtih a switch between the power
terminals (30-87). This will run the pump continiously making trouble
shooting a lot easier. To see if the injectors are working/getting fuel
remove the boot on the f.distrbutor and lift the big disc a bit. With the
pump running this will be hard so before you hit the pump wedge something
between the disc so it'll stay lifted. Place the injectors in a container.
There will be a zooming sound when they crack open. If nothing happens you
can try to lift the disk a bit more.
SFC >> Stay informed about: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve? |
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External
Since: Oct 27, 2007
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:54 am
Post subject: Re: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Thanks for the tips. Running the pump continuously with the jumper,
I'm still seeing the same behavior -- fuel is only delivered to the
cold start valve port on the fuel distributor. Changing the position
of the air flow plate doesn't have an effect.
Any thoughts on where else to look? All the electrical tests on the 25-
pin control module check out, although I don't have a harness to run
the Bentley tests on the differential pressure regulator. If it's
getting a bad signal, would that create the condition I'm seeing in
which no fuel is being sent to the injectors?
Thanks again,
Nathan >> Stay informed about: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve? |
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External
Since: Nov 26, 2006
Posts: 726
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:07 am
Post subject: Re: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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ign has to be on while doing the test
the Fuel Pressure Regulator, if electronic, has to have current going to it
along with ground and the FPR still could be bad. I have sometimes found
broken ground wires.
So yes it has to have power & ground along with being good for the injectors
to get the proper fuel coming out.
There should be a relay that powers up some of the FI components too.
I keep a spare FPR or two for testing purposes that I have pulled off of
cars at the junk yard. 
AND at the J-Yard I have cut a couple of 2 prong plugs so I could hook a
digital volt ohm meter to the FPR.
There was someone just searching for a running/stalling problem with his VW.
He found out that there was no fuel in the tank. 
--
later,
dave
(One out of many daves)
"Nathan" <allegro.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1193641868.905965.155870@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the tips. Running the pump continuously with the jumper,
> I'm still seeing the same behavior -- fuel is only delivered to the
> cold start valve port on the fuel distributor. Changing the position
> of the air flow plate doesn't have an effect.
>
> Any thoughts on where else to look? All the electrical tests on the 25-
> pin control module check out, although I don't have a harness to run
> the Bentley tests on the differential pressure regulator. If it's
> getting a bad signal, would that create the condition I'm seeing in
> which no fuel is being sent to the injectors?
>
> Thanks again,
> Nathan
> >> Stay informed about: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve? |
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External
Since: Oct 27, 2007
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:33 pm
Post subject: Re: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Hi Dave,
Thanks a bunch for the ideas. I'll definitely go after some two-prong
harnesses at the junk yard today and will try a second FPR I have
lying around.
Do you know where the FPR's ground is? I've been repairing some wire
damage from rats as I go, and I'd love to hunt down a broken ground
that brings this thing back to life!
Also, thanks for the heads up on checking the simple things first --
there is indeed clean gas in the tank, good flow/pressure at the fuel
distributor, good spark... but only fuel going to the non-functioning
cold start valve!
Thanks again,
Nathan >> Stay informed about: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve? |
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External
Since: Oct 27, 2007
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:34 pm
Post subject: Re: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Some success! It seems that the slapping on the new pressure regulator
has brought fuel to the injector ports. I tightened down the injector
lines and cranked away.. got a bit of lumpy cough, but we're not out
of the woods just yet. I'll try to find a cold start valve and thermo
time switch at the junk yard and see where that gets me.
Also, as I cranked, I started to hear a hiss and found fuel
splattering around down by the main pump/filter. I can't imagine that
I'll get very far with with a leak like that -- might be a good time
to replace the filter since the car's been sitting for a long time
with bad gas.
Should I replace the pump as well? How about the accumulator or any
other components down there?
Thanks again,
Nathan >> Stay informed about: A2 GTI fuelsystem woes -- Distributor, Cold Start Valve? |
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