99 Taurus A/C uncool

I had the same problem with my 1978 Ford Granada. The a/c just would not
blow cold. I hooked up the manifold gauge set and everything appeared to be
ok and there was R-12 in the system. The problem turned out to be a
sticking expansion valve. The expansion valve is a rectangular block with
an adjustment button on the bottom. A friend sat in the car and watched a
temperature gauge while I opened the button. As soon as the gauge read 30
degrees I stopped backing out the button.


"Don Byrer" <kj5kb.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fkic63h0l89p08d9d5q68tjckq2qipr6rp@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 01:10:58 -0400, Don Byrer <kj5kb.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I have a 99 Taurus 3.0 Duratec, AX4N, Climate Control, owned from
>>new.
>>
>>So...once I get the gauge fixed, any suggestions as to what pressures
>>I should see at, say 80F?
>
> Well...ME, mister "go freakin look it up on Alldata" (or factory
> book, Helm, etc...) did just that...I found complete charts of
> pressures AND compressor cycling times vs temperature on Alldata.
>
> Any other suggestions would be appreciated; especially on charging
> procedures for a partially charged system.
>
> Thanks! Don
>
>
> Don Byrer KJ5KB
> Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy
> Glider & CFI wannabe
> kj5kb-at-hotmail.com
>
> "I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without
> bending the gear..."
> "Watch out for those doves...<smack-smack-smack-smack...>"
 >> Stay informed about: 99 Taurus A/C uncool 

Don Byrer wrote:
> Hi...
>
> I have a 99 Taurus 3.0 Duratec, AX4N, Climate Control, owned from
> new.
>
> Never any problem with A/C cooling, tho a few electrical problems.
>
> Regularly driven til last year, now about once a week.
>
> Not cooling when A/C first used this year. Compressor
> short-cycling...so I assume there was 'some' pressure in the system.
> I should have checked static pressure first.
>
> Hooked up the gauges and added a little 134 (30 lb tank with over 3/4
> left) . Compressor cycles got longer and air got cooler. The high
> side gauge fitting started leaking, so I aborted the mission. Probably
> leaked it right back out. Now back to square 1...no cold air.
>
> So...once I get the gauge fixed, any suggestions as to what pressures
> I should see at, say 80F?
>
> I know basic A/C theory, and have had moderate success working on my
> own cars before...or...I know enough to be dangerous
>
> I know the 'right' way is to have it evac'd, tested, recharged with
> x.xx lbs of 134, tested again, etc. I'll do that if I have to; but
> I'd like to get a handle on it first.
>
> Thanks, Don


A good rule of thumb on the pressures: 28-32psi on the low side, 2.5 times the ambient
temp on the high side (Max AC, High Blower, 1500 RPM, doors open). Evaporator inlet
and outlet pipes the same temp, and the suction line cool back to the compressor.
The system will have UV dye in it from the factory. You should be able to find the
leak with a black light. Any of the spring-lock fittings are suspect. Compressor shaft
and body seals, and the suction line running in front of the motor are next in line.
If the power steering leaks near the pump, the oil can damage the lines on the
compressor manifold.
 >> Stay informed about: 99 Taurus A/C uncool 

Don Byrer wrote:

>
> Well...ME, mister "go freakin look it up on Alldata" (or factory
> book, Helm, etc...) did just that...I found complete charts of
> pressures AND compressor cycling times vs temperature on Alldata.
>
> Any other suggestions would be appreciated; especially on charging
> procedures for a partially charged system.
>
> Thanks! Don

It's really not a great idea to "top off" a partially charged system. Due to the
reduced size of modern systems, the "window" of acceptable charge is only a few
ounces. It's a bit like topping off the oil in your engine without a dip stick. You
should at least recover the remaining refrigerant, evacuate the system and charge by
weight. This will also remove any moisture in the system (and give you a chance to fix
the leak so you don't have to recharge again alter).
All of those charts and tables look good, but you'll find them cumbersome to use in
the real world.
 >> Stay informed about: 99 Taurus A/C uncool 

On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 10:13:31 -0400, Tom Adkins <nospam RemoveThis @centurytel.net>
wrote:
>A good rule of thumb on the pressures: 28-32psi on the low side, 2.5 times the ambient
>temp on the high side (Max AC, High Blower, 1500 RPM, doors open).

Thanks...That's pretty much what the charts give me.


> The system will have UV dye in it from the factory. You should be able to find the
>leak with a black light.

Wasn't sure if they did that. Will have to drag out a blacklight and
inspect.

Might be a week 'r' so til I get back to it. Will check it out & post
my findings.

--Don
Don Byrer KJ5KB
Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy
Glider & CFI wannabe
kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
"Watch out for those doves...<smack-smack-smack-smack...>"
 >> Stay informed about: 99 Taurus A/C uncool 

Update:

Got a new o-ring for my hi-side gauge, but wasn't confident it would
hold. Hooked up the lo-side gauge only.

Static pressure-engine off ~10 PSI. Obviously a leak

Added R134 to ~ 70 PSI. Figured that was a good start (yes, I know I
shoulda got a scale out...I will next time). Started engine, lo side
short cycling between ~ 25-42 PSI.

Engine off, hooked up hi-side hose, leaking, disconnected it .

ARRGH! darn thing worked fine when new 3 years ago....

Started engine, A/C on max, RPM ~1500. slowly charged 134 til
compressor just stopped cycling. Per Ford Data, compressor will not
cycle above ~81F, @ 1500 RPM...and my temp was conveniently 80 F
today

So...I should be 'close' on the charge. Center outlet temp 40F,
right in the middle of the chart.

So...I am now an informed customer. I have a leak, and it appears the
system is working OK when fully charged.

I have a friend working on the loan of a UV lamp so we can try to find
leaks.

I will probably end up taking this to a local shop anyway for the
final repair & recharge...but it's nice to know what the problem is.
I'm just hoping it's not the compressor shaft seal

--Don
Don Byrer KJ5KB
Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy
Glider & CFI wannabe
kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
"Watch out for those doves...<smack-smack-smack-smack...>"
 >> Stay informed about: 99 Taurus A/C uncool 

Don Byrer wrote:
> Hi...
>
> I have a 99 Taurus 3.0 Duratec, AX4N, Climate Control, owned from
> new.
>
> Never any problem with A/C cooling, tho a few electrical problems.
>
> Regularly driven til last year, now about once a week.
>
> Not cooling when A/C first used this year. Compressor
> short-cycling...so I assume there was 'some' pressure in the system.
> I should have checked static pressure first.
>
> Hooked up the gauges and added a little 134 (30 lb tank with over 3/4
> left) . Compressor cycles got longer and air got cooler. The high
> side gauge fitting started leaking, so I aborted the mission. Probably
> leaked it right back out. Now back to square 1...no cold air.
>
> So...once I get the gauge fixed, any suggestions as to what pressures
> I should see at, say 80F?
>
> I know basic A/C theory, and have had moderate success working on my
> own cars before...or...I know enough to be dangerous
>
> I know the 'right' way is to have it evac'd, tested, recharged with
> x.xx lbs of 134, tested again, etc. I'll do that if I have to; but
> I'd like to get a handle on it first.
>
> Thanks, Don
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Byrer KJ5KB
> Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy
> Glider & CFI wannabe
> kj5kb-at-hotmail.com
>
> "I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
> "Watch out for those doves...<smack-smack-smack-smack...>"

You've got three problems:

1) You don't have enough coolant in the system.

2) There is a leak in the system.

3) You don't have a clue what you're doing or the proper equipment.

You can solve these problems by bringing the car to someone who has
equipment and experience, like your dealer.

Playing with this yourself is dangerous and stupid.

Jeff
 >> Stay informed about: 99 Taurus A/C uncool 

Jeff wrote:

> You've got three problems:

Likely more than that, but the problem he was asking about was with the AC on his car.
>
> 1) You don't have enough coolant in the system.

No, he doesn't have enough Refrigerant. There's a big difference in the two.
>
> 2) There is a leak in the system.

He knows that and acknowledges it.
>
> 3) You don't have a clue what you're doing or the proper equipment.

No he didn't, but he is taking a pretty darn good approach at learning, and is doing
pretty well.
>
> You can solve these problems by bringing the car to someone who has
> equipment and experience, like your dealer.

Yes he can. But AC repair is not rocket science. It can be done DIY, especially the
way is going about it. He is really taking the long way around just to take it to a
shop, though.
>
> Playing with this yourself is dangerous and stupid.

Very much so, but he seems to understand this. He actually seems to have more than
half of a brain. If he blows his fingers off, it's on him. It doesn't seem likely,
though, the way he is proceeding. I haven't seen you add a precaution to this thread
until this point. Where have you been until now with your concern for his safety?? The
original post was 9 days ago.
>
> Jeff

Yes, that's your name. Now grow up and be a productive member of society instead of
trolling usenet.
 >> Stay informed about: 99 Taurus A/C uncool 

Tom Adkins wrote:
> Jeff wrote:
>
>> You've got three problems:
>
> Likely more than that, but the problem he was asking about was with the
> AC on his car.
>>
>> 1) You don't have enough coolant in the system.
>
> No, he doesn't have enough Refrigerant. There's a big difference in the
> two.
>>
>> 2) There is a leak in the system.
>
> He knows that and acknowledges it.
>>
>> 3) You don't have a clue what you're doing or the proper equipment.
>
> No he didn't, but he is taking a pretty darn good approach at learning,
> and is doing pretty well.
>>
>> You can solve these problems by bringing the car to someone who has
>> equipment and experience, like your dealer.
>
> Yes he can. But AC repair is not rocket science. It can be done DIY,
> especially the way is going about it. He is really taking the long way
> around just to take it to a shop, though.
>>
>> Playing with this yourself is dangerous and stupid.
>
> Very much so, but he seems to understand this. He actually seems to
> have more than half of a brain. If he blows his fingers off, it's on
> him. It doesn't seem likely, though, the way he is proceeding. I
> haven't seen you add a precaution to this thread until this point. Where
> have you been until now with your concern for his safety?? The original
> post was 9 days ago.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> Yes, that's your name.

Actually, it is.

> Now grow up and be a productive member of
> society instead of trolling usenet.

Have you ever taught kids in NYC schools? Taken care of sick kids in a
pediatric ICU? Or there brothers in a camp for kids with cancer?
Mentored children in NYC or coached them in soccer?

I have.

IMHO, I think what this guy is doing is dangerous, without the proper
equipment and training. I expressed my opinion.

If you don't like it, in the words of the NYC kids: Tough doo-doo.

Jeff
 >> Stay informed about: 99 Taurus A/C uncool 

Jeff <kidsdoc2000 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in news:dOQci.238$p45.39@trndny01:

> Tom Adkins wrote:
>> Jeff wrote:
>>
>>> You've got three problems:
>>
>> Likely more than that, but the problem he was asking about was with
>> the
>> AC on his car.
>>>
>>> 1) You don't have enough coolant in the system.
>>
>> No, he doesn't have enough Refrigerant. There's a big difference in
>> the
>> two.
>>>
>>> 2) There is a leak in the system.
>>
>> He knows that and acknowledges it.
>>>
>>> 3) You don't have a clue what you're doing or the proper equipment.
>>
>> No he didn't, but he is taking a pretty darn good approach at
>> learning,
>> and is doing pretty well.
>>>
>>> You can solve these problems by bringing the car to someone who has
>>> equipment and experience, like your dealer.
>>
>> Yes he can. But AC repair is not rocket science. It can be done DIY,
>> especially the way is going about it. He is really taking the long
>> way around just to take it to a shop, though.
>>>
>>> Playing with this yourself is dangerous and stupid.
>>
>> Very much so, but he seems to understand this. He actually seems to
>> have more than half of a brain. If he blows his fingers off, it's on
>> him. It doesn't seem likely, though, the way he is proceeding. I
>> haven't seen you add a precaution to this thread until this point.
>> Where have you been until now with your concern for his safety?? The
>> original post was 9 days ago.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>> Yes, that's your name.
>
> Actually, it is.
>
>> Now grow up and be a productive member of
>> society instead of trolling usenet.
>
> Have you ever taught kids in NYC schools? Taken care of sick kids in a
> pediatric ICU? Or there brothers in a camp for kids with cancer?
> Mentored children in NYC or coached them in soccer?
>
> I have.
>
> IMHO, I think what this guy is doing is dangerous, without the proper
> equipment and training. I expressed my opinion.
>
> If you don't like it, in the words of the NYC kids: Tough doo-doo.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
So you are the guy responsible for training all the kids in NYC schools
eh?
You are such a multi talented guy, you forget about being an automotive
expert. I guess being humble is just your personality.
 >> Stay informed about: 99 Taurus A/C uncool 

Follow-up:

UV lamp showed numerous pinpoints of yellow, as well as a ~1" streak
near the base of the condensor coil, near the hose connection.

I washed the engine compartment thoroughly, then added a partial
charge just the get some pressure back in the system (and maybe force
more dye out.)

Took it to local shop today...condensor has a hairline crack in
it...arrgh. $800 to replace condensor (which I don't wanna do
myself), accumulator (probly needs it) and recharge.

Not bad considering I don't wanna do that one myself...and it's a
reputable shop. AND I'll have it back by the end of the day

--Don
Don Byrer KJ5KB
Radar Tech & Smilin' Commercial Pilot Guy
Glider & CFI wannabe
kj5kb-at-hotmail.com

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."
"Watch out for those doves...<smack-smack-smack-smack...>"
 >> Stay informed about: 99 Taurus A/C uncool