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96 F150 - heater core leak(??)

 
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Bill Schwab

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Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 91



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:05 pm
Post subject: 96 F150 - heater core leak(??)
Archived from groups: alt>trucks>ford (more info?)

Hello all,

Driving older vehicles (by choice, mo$tly<g>) I keep a close eye out for
signs of leaks. My 90 Sentra has long had seeping oil leaks, so
intermittent drips of old crud don't scare me; if it becomes common, I
take notice, clear oil on the ground is a call to battle stations.

I have had the car since it was new, but the truck I bought just over a
year ago. In that time, it has barely made a mark on its part of the
driveway. I find this odd because it has some signs of minor leaks, but
I can live with it Smile

Today, I started to leave for an errand and noted a fairly large wet
area under where it had been sitting; fortunately, I did not pass it off
as rain water. It was from the right side, and felt a little oily. I
hate to admit it, but my first reaction was "it's not coolant." A
flashlight from the top didn't reveal much. A little oily patch here or
there, but nothing scary, all consistent with the engine's normal
condition, and nothing that would explain the "spill."

I didn't see much from below, until what I now think was coolant dripped
on my arm, and I noticed the trickle leading back up to what I am
assuming is the heater core. The hoses inside the engine compartment
look fine. So far, I do not see any signs of coolant inside the cab; is
that something that I should expect to find, or does the cover arrange
for it to fall (forgive the ravings of a green mechanic) between the cab
and the wheel well, or something like that? Please feel free to correct
my anatomical references as appropriate.

The only other thing that comes to mind is that it _could_ be some dyed
fluid from the AC system. I doubt it, but I will mention it. The AC
was working fine recently, though I had no use for it today. I do not
know whether it has dye in it.

It appears not to leak very much when the engine is not running. Does
that tell you anything?

Assuming it is the core:

Haynes says to disconnect the negative battery cable. I'm happy to do
it, but am wondering why that would be necessary. There is also mention
in both Haynes and the Ford shop manual about vacuum connections. It
might make sense when I get into it, but any pointers to what is going
on would be appreciated. Partly curiosity, and partly wondering what I
am getting into.

Since the core seems a likely offender and apparently costs all of $22,
I am off to get one before it sells, and to have it on hand for when I
tear into it (probably tomorrow). With that said, is there anything
else you would consider as a source of the leak? My plan is to remove
the glove box and then put a pressure tester on it to hopefully prove
the core is the problem. Is there any problem with that approach? Does
removing the glove box ask for trouble with the battery connected? Any
other risk?

Haynes also says to drain the coolant. Again, no problem, but is it
really necessary? The heater hoses are high in the system, and can be
covered and supported high enough to prevent lots of coolant loss. The
coolant looks fairly clean after my relatively recent water pump and
radiator adventures, so I am inclined to avoid creating a lot of waste
just yet. It seems that I should be able to get away with losing only
what spills before I get control of the hoses and a little more
installing the new core. Please let me know if I am missing something.

Is there anything else I should be asking? You might recall advising me
on replacing the shocks, thermostat, water pump, and radiator.
Translation: I know just enough to be dangerous Smile Cautions and hints
will be gladly accepted.

Thanks,

Bill

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nonelson

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Since: Nov 12, 2004
Posts: 805



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:11 am
Post subject: Re: 96 F150 - heater core leak(??) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <13ntluer31c7cfb DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>,
Bill Schwab <bschwab DeleteThis @anest.ufl.edu> wrote:

> Hello all,
<snip>
> Assuming it is the core:
>
> Haynes says to disconnect the negative battery cable. I'm happy to do
> it, but am wondering why that would be necessary.

It's a CYA thing the OEMs do. Sometimes it's well advised to do
it, other times, there is absolutely no point.
Common sense dictates whether you should, if there is a chance of
shorting something out while working, by all means, disconnect
the battery.

> There is also mention
> in both Haynes and the Ford shop manual about vacuum connections. It
> might make sense when I get into it, but any pointers to what is going
> on would be appreciated. Partly curiosity, and partly wondering what I
> am getting into.

Should become obvious once you get under the dash.

> Since the core seems a likely offender and apparently costs all of $22,
> I am off to get one before it sells, and to have it on hand for when I
> tear into it (probably tomorrow). With that said, is there anything
> else you would consider as a source of the leak? My plan is to remove
> the glove box and then put a pressure tester on it to hopefully prove
> the core is the problem.

Good idea. Whatever is dripping, you can put a little on your
tongue and taste it to see if it's antifreeze or not. Yellow
GO-5 coolant (if that's what's in it) is tougher to see compared
to orange or green.

> Is there any problem with that approach? Does
> removing the glove box ask for trouble with the battery connected? Any
> other risk?

No problem here.

> Haynes also says to drain the coolant. Again, no problem, but is it
> really necessary? The heater hoses are high in the system, and can be
> covered and supported high enough to prevent lots of coolant loss. The
> coolant looks fairly clean after my relatively recent water pump and
> radiator adventures, so I am inclined to avoid creating a lot of waste
> just yet. It seems that I should be able to get away with losing only
> what spills before I get control of the hoses and a little more
> installing the new core. Please let me know if I am missing something.

Again, more CYA procedure... Take the hoses loose and either
plug them or pinch them off.

> Is there anything else I should be asking? You might recall advising me
> on replacing the shocks, thermostat, water pump, and radiator.
> Translation: I know just enough to be dangerous Smile Cautions and hints
> will be gladly accepted.

Being a 96, this shouldn't be too hard of a job, labor time is
under 2 hours. 97 and newer, labor time is 7.0 hours and
requires removal of the dashboard.

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Bill Schwab

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Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 91



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:43 am
Post subject: Re: 96 F150 - heater core leak(??) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

aarcuda69062 wrote:

>> Haynes says to disconnect the negative battery cable. I'm happy to do
>> it, but am wondering why that would be necessary.
>
> It's a CYA thing the OEMs do. Sometimes it's well advised to do
> it, other times, there is absolutely no point.
> Common sense dictates whether you should, if there is a chance of
> shorting something out while working, by all means, disconnect
> the battery.

Got it.



>> Since the core seems a likely offender and apparently costs all of $22,
>> I am off to get one before it sells, and to have it on hand for when I
>> tear into it (probably tomorrow). With that said, is there anything
>> else you would consider as a source of the leak? My plan is to remove
>> the glove box and then put a pressure tester on it to hopefully prove
>> the core is the problem.
>
> Good idea. Whatever is dripping, you can put a little on your
> tongue and taste it to see if it's antifreeze or not. Yellow
> GO-5 coolant (if that's what's in it) is tougher to see compared
> to orange or green.

After a couple of "now it's leaking over there..." cycles, I was getting
tired of making waste coolant, so I used the cheapest green stuff I
could find Smile The drops collecting at the low spots on the truck are
obviously green; all bets are off when it hits the ground, perhaps
because it is not a very big leak. As indicated, it could be something
else.



> Being a 96, this shouldn't be too hard of a job, labor time is
> under 2 hours. 97 and newer, labor time is 7.0 hours and
> requires removal of the dashboard.

Yikes! Is the change of any benefit to the owner, or it simply Ford
getting cheap on us?

Thanks!

Bill
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david

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Since: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 53



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:18 pm
Post subject: Re: 96 F150 - heater core leak(??) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:43:32 -0500, Bill Schwab rearranged some electrons
to say:


>
> Yikes! Is the change of any benefit to the owner, or it simply Ford
> getting cheap on us?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bill

Uh, Bill, the 97 is a different design truck than the 96.
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Bill Schwab

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Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 91



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:18 pm
Post subject: Re: 96 F150 - heater core leak(??) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

david wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:43:32 -0500, Bill Schwab rearranged some electrons
> to say:
>
>
>> Yikes! Is the change of any benefit to the owner, or it simply Ford
>> getting cheap on us?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Bill
>
> Uh, Bill, the 97 is a different design truck than the 96.

Uh, David, my question is whether that difference is a good thing in
general that happens to result in complicating a particular repair, or a
questionable design change that reduces up-front costs for Ford at the
later expense of the owner? Uh, is that, uh, clear enough?

Bill
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Bill Schwab

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Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 91



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:09 pm
Post subject: Re: 96 F150 - heater core leak(??) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Gang,

I _think_ I made sense of a few things.

It *is* a coolant leak (but I'll stick to green tea or Peach Snapple),
and it is starting to look like it is intermittent, and very likely
coming from one of the heater hoses. I can make it leak a little by
playing with one of the hoses, but it seems to hold pressure, which is
weird given how much coolant appeared to hit the ground at one time.
Maybe it pooled over a while and then spilled when I backed up??

The leak _could_ be coming from the core, running along the bottom of
the tubing and trickling down the wheel well, but a leaky hose is
probably the problem. The apparent absence of coolant inside the cab
AFAIK also points to leak elsewhere.

As an aside, my Sentra did something very similar, with weird timing. I
did NONE of the work in that case, ok Smile The AC compressor quit after
"only" 14 years, so I had the pros I trust with the car replace it and
convert it for the new refrigerant. A coincidental coolant leak ended
up looking a lot like an AC system leak (dyed oil), and it flat fooled
us. It took a couple of attempts, but they told me they tightened a
clamp on one of the radiator hoses, and I must say the leaks stopped,
and the AC has worked fine all along. Skeptical? You would not be if
you knew these guys. It was actually a little more complicated than
that, but that's the general idea of it. The real point being that
coolant was able to leak enough to make a small mess, but there was no
steaming or other signs of a "real" leak.

Back to the truck, one of the things that bothered me a few months ago
when I was changing the heater hoses was that the core moved as I pushed
on the hoses. It now looks as though the heater cover is missing a
couple of screws at the top. I can't move the hoses and see the cover
at the same time, but my guess is that a couple of extra screws would
hold the core steady and make it easier to install the hoses.

I have noticed other trucks with LOTS of silicon or some other kind of
sealant where the heater hoses meet the core. Is that needed to prevent
leaks like this?

For now, I am torn between beefing up the connection and watching it for
a while, and just changing the core while I'm there. It's cheap, I
really should mess around with the cover to add the missing screws (any
idea whether they are all the same length?), and I need the practice Wink
I would add that the core is ancient, but I am suddenly not sure about
that. The missing screws might suggest that it has been changed;
hopefully it left the factory with them. There are also some small rust
stains on the cover, which might mean the core leaked and was changed.

A couple of hours ago, I was fairly confused about what was heater cover
and what was stuff I might not want to disturb. The illustrations I
found made the cover appear flat; it seems to be more of a rounded
rectangular bubble on a flat back, or there abouts. There is an "extra
box" that appears to be the RABS module mentioned in the shop manual.
They say to move it out of the way. It appears to be held in place with
two hex/star head screws, and has an impressive electrical connector on
the right side. My thought would be to simply remove/disconnect it and
replace it later. Is there any reason to leave it connected vs.
remove/replace?

There is some wiring that looks like it is intended to run along the
bottom of the dash, and should probably be happy to have the core pass
behind and below it. Any reports of problems with that would be
appreciated.

As always, please feel free to answer any questions I should be asking.
Thanks!

Bill
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david

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Since: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 53



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:11 pm
Post subject: Re: 96 F150 - heater core leak(??) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 12:32:30 -0500, Bill Schwab rearranged some electrons
to say:

> david wrote:
>> On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:43:32 -0500, Bill Schwab rearranged some
>> electrons to say:
>>
>>
>>> Yikes! Is the change of any benefit to the owner, or it simply Ford
>>> getting cheap on us?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>> Uh, Bill, the 97 is a different design truck than the 96.
>
> Uh, David, my question is whether that difference is a good thing in
> general that happens to result in complicating a particular repair, or a
> questionable design change that reduces up-front costs for Ford at the
> later expense of the owner? Uh, is that, uh, clear enough?
>
> Bill

It's a totally different truck for cripes sakes. Haven't you noticed the
differences between your 96 and the newer ones on the road today?
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Bill Schwab

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Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 91



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:11 pm
Post subject: Re: 96 F150 - heater core leak(??) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

david wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 12:32:30 -0500, Bill Schwab rearranged some electrons
> to say:
>
>> david wrote:
>>> On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:43:32 -0500, Bill Schwab rearranged some
>>> electrons to say:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yikes! Is the change of any benefit to the owner, or it simply Ford
>>>> getting cheap on us?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>> Uh, Bill, the 97 is a different design truck than the 96.
>> Uh, David, my question is whether that difference is a good thing in
>> general that happens to result in complicating a particular repair, or a
>> questionable design change that reduces up-front costs for Ford at the
>> later expense of the owner? Uh, is that, uh, clear enough?
>>
>> Bill
>
> It's a totally different truck for cripes sakes. Haven't you noticed the
> differences between your 96 and the newer ones on the road today?

Of course. That is not the question. If you just want to snipe, I have
better things to do with my time.

Sincerely,

Bill
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Bill Schwab

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Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 91



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: 96 F150 - heater core leak(??) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hello all,

I replaced the heater core Sunday afternoon. After some struggling with
identifying what I did not have to do, I had very little trouble. I
also question whether or not I needed to replace it, but at the price,
it is nice to know a new one lurks behind the dash. Also, I felt it was
important to remove the cover to verify that I knew where the missing
screws were going; they indeed helped when making the hose connections.
After all that messing around with plastic parts, it seemed reasonable
to replace it to avoid having to tear it all apart soon. The vacuum
connections never got in my way - not sure why. The direction switch
seems to work.

Somewhat by accident, I found that the Ford shop manual mentions
back-flushing the heater core after a flush. Any opinions on it?

After another pressure test, and LOTS of jiggling of the offending hose
(the leak turned out to be at the connection to the old core), I took
the truck on the road a couple of times, and let it cool nose-up with
plenty of coolant in the reservoir.

Any suggestions for knowing when a clamp is properly tightened? That
and some struggling due to the missing screws seems to have been the
problem the first time around.

Bill
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