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External
Since: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:20 am
Post subject: '96 F150 O2 sensors...
Archived from groups: alt>trucks>ford (more info?)
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Hi folks
I have a '96 F150, I6 engine. Auto parts store tells me there is an
upstream and downstream O2 sensor. There is one towards the front of
the engine and one towards the back, how do I tell which is which?
Neither one seems further away in the exhaust stream, so both seem to be
upstream.
Maybe there are two upstream and then another downstream?
Thanks!
-ben |
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External
Since: Jan 11, 2007
Posts: 1700
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:55 pm
Post subject: Re: '96 F150 O2 sensors... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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What there really is, is one before the CAT and one after the CAT.
The exhaust comes out of the engine and into the exhaust manifold. There is
a sensor mounted to the exhaust manifold, this is upstream of the Catalytic
Converter (CAT). There is another sensor mounted after the CAT to judge if
the CAT has cdone its job, this is the down stream sensor.
Depending on the configuration of the exhaust system, the number of sensors
can vary. If the exhaust manifold is split so that 3 cylinders flow into one
section and the other 3 flow into another section, then you can have two
sensors upstream of the CAT. If the two manifolds come together ahead of the
CAT, then they normally put the sensor just after (from the perspective of
the flow) the point where the manifolds combine into one tube, and this
allows 1 sensor to be used. If each manifold feeds the CAT separately, then
there will be two upstream sensors, and if there are two CATs, then there
will also be two downstream sensors -- a sensor for each CAT.
"Ben Snyder" <spamm76 RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:we-dnfq2LauDtv3bnZ2dnUVZ_ovinZ2d@comcast.com...
> Hi folks
>
> I have a '96 F150, I6 engine. Auto parts store tells me there is an
> upstream and downstream O2 sensor. There is one towards the front of the
> engine and one towards the back, how do I tell which is which? Neither one
> seems further away in the exhaust stream, so both seem to be upstream.
>
> Maybe there are two upstream and then another downstream?
>
> Thanks!
> -ben |
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External
Since: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:24 am
Post subject: Re: '96 F150 O2 sensors... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ah, got it. Thanks. I have a split exhaust manifold, so two in there
and one after the cat.
-ben
Jeff Strickland wrote:
> What there really is, is one before the CAT and one after the CAT.
>
> The exhaust comes out of the engine and into the exhaust manifold. There
> is a sensor mounted to the exhaust manifold, this is upstream of the
> Catalytic Converter (CAT). There is another sensor mounted after the CAT
> to judge if the CAT has cdone its job, this is the down stream sensor.
>
> Depending on the configuration of the exhaust system, the number of
> sensors can vary. If the exhaust manifold is split so that 3 cylinders
> flow into one section and the other 3 flow into another section, then
> you can have two sensors upstream of the CAT. If the two manifolds come
> together ahead of the CAT, then they normally put the sensor just after
> (from the perspective of the flow) the point where the manifolds combine
> into one tube, and this allows 1 sensor to be used. If each manifold
> feeds the CAT separately, then there will be two upstream sensors, and
> if there are two CATs, then there will also be two downstream sensors --
> a sensor for each CAT.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Ben Snyder" <spamm76.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:we-dnfq2LauDtv3bnZ2dnUVZ_ovinZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Hi folks
>>
>> I have a '96 F150, I6 engine. Auto parts store tells me there is an
>> upstream and downstream O2 sensor. There is one towards the front of
>> the engine and one towards the back, how do I tell which is which?
>> Neither one seems further away in the exhaust stream, so both seem to
>> be upstream.
>>
>> Maybe there are two upstream and then another downstream?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> -ben
> >> Stay informed about: '96 F150 O2 sensors... |
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External
Since: Jan 11, 2007
Posts: 1700
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:55 pm
Post subject: Re: '96 F150 O2 sensors... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Now, your '96 is OBD II compliant, and there is a data port along the bottom
edge of the dash board, generally where your left leg rests while driving,
and your local autoparts store (and eBay) offer code readers for a
reasonable sum.
The computer will spit out codes that will tell you what sensor is giving
readings that are outside of the expected range. If you haven't got a code
reader, AutoZone will let you use theirs for free, or (depending on what
state you are in) they will use the scan tool for you.
The upstream sensors are refered to as Bank 1 Sensor 1, Bank 2 Sensor 1,
Bank 1 Sensor 2, etc. Bank 1 is the bank that contains the #1 Cylinder, and
Sensor 1 or Sensor 2 defines the location in the exhaust system, with lower
numbers being closer to the front, and higher numbers being towards the
rear.
If your computer is not throwing codes, your sensors are okay and do not
need attention. >> Stay informed about: '96 F150 O2 sensors... |
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External
Since: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:13 pm
Post subject: Re: '96 F150 O2 sensors... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jeff Strickland wrote:
> Now, your '96 is OBD II compliant, and there is a data port along the
> bottom edge of the dash board, generally where your left leg rests while
> driving, and your local autoparts store (and eBay) offer code readers
> for a reasonable sum.
>
> The computer will spit out codes that will tell you what sensor is
> giving readings that are outside of the expected range. If you haven't
> got a code reader, AutoZone will let you use theirs for free, or
> (depending on what state you are in) they will use the scan tool for you.
>
> The upstream sensors are refered to as Bank 1 Sensor 1, Bank 2 Sensor 1,
> Bank 1 Sensor 2, etc. Bank 1 is the bank that contains the #1 Cylinder,
> and Sensor 1 or Sensor 2 defines the location in the exhaust system,
> with lower numbers being closer to the front, and higher numbers being
> towards the rear.
>
> If your computer is not throwing codes, your sensors are okay and do not
> need attention.
Yep, checked this out. Advance Auto read them for me, though I was told
by a mechanic they read the codes incorrectly. All three O2 sensors
read a 'too lean' condition. The guy who read the codes told me all
three sensors were bad - but a mechanic told me this is fine, it's a
different problem altogether.
I took the mechanic's advice and pulled the fuel injectors. Replaced
one and cleaned the other five. It's running better but not 100%, so I
expect the remaining five need to go for better cleaning or replacement.
Thanks again for the help,
-ben >> Stay informed about: '96 F150 O2 sensors... |
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External
Since: Jan 11, 2007
Posts: 1700
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:55 pm
Post subject: Re: '96 F150 O2 sensors... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ben Snyder" <spamm76.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:xIudnRV5c8Ma7_nbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>> Now, your '96 is OBD II compliant, and there is a data port along the
>> bottom edge of the dash board, generally where your left leg rests while
>> driving, and your local autoparts store (and eBay) offer code readers for
>> a reasonable sum.
>>
>> The computer will spit out codes that will tell you what sensor is giving
>> readings that are outside of the expected range. If you haven't got a
>> code reader, AutoZone will let you use theirs for free, or (depending on
>> what state you are in) they will use the scan tool for you.
>>
>> The upstream sensors are refered to as Bank 1 Sensor 1, Bank 2 Sensor 1,
>> Bank 1 Sensor 2, etc. Bank 1 is the bank that contains the #1 Cylinder,
>> and Sensor 1 or Sensor 2 defines the location in the exhaust system, with
>> lower numbers being closer to the front, and higher numbers being towards
>> the rear.
>>
>> If your computer is not throwing codes, your sensors are okay and do not
>> need attention.
>
> Yep, checked this out. Advance Auto read them for me, though I was told
> by a mechanic they read the codes incorrectly. All three O2 sensors read
> a 'too lean' condition. The guy who read the codes told me all three
> sensors were bad - but a mechanic told me this is fine, it's a different
> problem altogether.
>
> I took the mechanic's advice and pulled the fuel injectors. Replaced one
> and cleaned the other five. It's running better but not 100%, so I expect
> the remaining five need to go for better cleaning or replacement.
>
> Thanks again for the help,
> -ben
>
That is certainly possible. If ONE sensor read bad (only one code came up),
I'd not hesitate to suspect a bad sensor. But, when all three sensors throw
a code, I'd have to look at different stuff.
It isn't clear, does your truck currently have a lit Check Engine light? >> Stay informed about: '96 F150 O2 sensors... |
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External
Since: Feb 21, 2005
Posts: 211
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:13 pm
Post subject: Re: '96 F150 O2 sensors... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jan 11, 2007
Posts: 1700
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:55 pm
Post subject: Re: '96 F150 O2 sensors... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"David M" <NOSPAM.DeleteThis@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4664c6ad$0$1429$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:13:58 -0400, Ben Snyder rearranged some electrons
> to form:
>
>> Yep, checked this out. Advance Auto read them for me, though I was told
>> by a mechanic they read the codes incorrectly. All three O2 sensors
>> read a 'too lean' condition. The guy who read the codes told me all
>> three sensors were bad - but a mechanic told me this is fine, it's a
>> different problem altogether.
>>
>> I took the mechanic's advice and pulled the fuel injectors. Replaced
>> one and cleaned the other five. It's running better but not 100%, so I
>> expect the remaining five need to go for better cleaning or replacement.
>>
>> Thanks again for the help,
>> -ben
>
> Could also be a vacuum leak somewhere.
Good call!
A vac leak in the right place will cause a lean condition ... >> Stay informed about: '96 F150 O2 sensors... |
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External
Since: Feb 21, 2005
Posts: 211
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:55 pm
Post subject: Re: '96 F150 O2 sensors... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 146
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:50 am
Post subject: Re: '96 F150 O2 sensors... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:40 am
Post subject: Re: '96 F150 O2 sensors... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> "Ben Snyder" <spamm76.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:xIudnRV5c8Ma7_nbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>> Now, your '96 is OBD II compliant, and there is a data port along the
>>> bottom edge of the dash board, generally where your left leg rests
>>> while driving, and your local autoparts store (and eBay) offer code
>>> readers for a reasonable sum.
>>>
>>> The computer will spit out codes that will tell you what sensor is
>>> giving readings that are outside of the expected range. If you
>>> haven't got a code reader, AutoZone will let you use theirs for free,
>>> or (depending on what state you are in) they will use the scan tool
>>> for you.
>>>
>>> The upstream sensors are refered to as Bank 1 Sensor 1, Bank 2 Sensor
>>> 1, Bank 1 Sensor 2, etc. Bank 1 is the bank that contains the #1
>>> Cylinder, and Sensor 1 or Sensor 2 defines the location in the
>>> exhaust system, with lower numbers being closer to the front, and
>>> higher numbers being towards the rear.
>>>
>>> If your computer is not throwing codes, your sensors are okay and do
>>> not need attention.
>>
>> Yep, checked this out. Advance Auto read them for me, though I was
>> told by a mechanic they read the codes incorrectly. All three O2
>> sensors read a 'too lean' condition. The guy who read the codes told
>> me all three sensors were bad - but a mechanic told me this is fine,
>> it's a different problem altogether.
>>
>> I took the mechanic's advice and pulled the fuel injectors. Replaced
>> one and cleaned the other five. It's running better but not 100%, so
>> I expect the remaining five need to go for better cleaning or
>> replacement.
>>
>> Thanks again for the help,
>> -ben
>>
>
> That is certainly possible. If ONE sensor read bad (only one co
> up), I'd not hesitate to suspect a bad sensor. But, when all three
> sensors throw a code, I'd have to look at different stuff.
>
> It isn't clear, does your truck currently have a lit Check Engine light?
Yup, it's on. >> Stay informed about: '96 F150 O2 sensors... |
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External
Since: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:43 am
Post subject: Re: '96 F150 O2 sensors... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David M wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 02:17:22 +0000, Jeff Strickland rearranged some
> electrons to form:
>
>> "David M" <NOSPAM.DeleteThis@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:4664c6ad$0$1429$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:13:58 -0400, Ben Snyder rearranged some electrons
>>> to form:
>>>
>>>> Yep, checked this out. Advance Auto read them for me, though I was told
>>>> by a mechanic they read the codes incorrectly. All three O2 sensors
>>>> read a 'too lean' condition. The guy who read the codes told me all
>>>> three sensors were bad - but a mechanic told me this is fine, it's a
>>>> different problem altogether.
>>>>
>>>> I took the mechanic's advice and pulled the fuel injectors. Replaced
>>>> one and cleaned the other five. It's running better but not 100%, so I
>>>> expect the remaining five need to go for better cleaning or replacement.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again for the help,
>>>> -ben
>>> Could also be a vacuum leak somewhere.
>>
>> Good call!
>>
>> A vac leak in the right place will cause a lean condition ...
>
> Yeah, it seems unlikely that 3 O2 sensors are bad. Then again,
> the OP might be burning lamp oil instead of gasoline.
>
I can pretty much guarantee it's gasoline, but who knows. Local station
skimping on real gas...
Anyway, thanks for the info guys. I'll check into vacuum tests, my
father in law hopefully still has some equipment for this.
-ben >> Stay informed about: '96 F150 O2 sensors... |
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External
Since: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:49 am
Post subject: Re: '96 F150 O2 sensors... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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lugnut wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:13:58 -0400, Ben Snyder
> <spamm76.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>> Now, your '96 is OBD II compliant, and there is a data port along the
>>> bottom edge of the dash board, generally where your left leg rests while
>>> driving, and your local autoparts store (and eBay) offer code readers
>>> for a reasonable sum.
>>>
>>> The computer will spit out codes that will tell you what sensor is
>>> giving readings that are outside of the expected range. If you haven't
>>> got a code reader, AutoZone will let you use theirs for free, or
>>> (depending on what state you are in) they will use the scan tool for you.
>>>
>>> The upstream sensors are refered to as Bank 1 Sensor 1, Bank 2 Sensor 1,
>>> Bank 1 Sensor 2, etc. Bank 1 is the bank that contains the #1 Cylinder,
>>> and Sensor 1 or Sensor 2 defines the location in the exhaust system,
>>> with lower numbers being closer to the front, and higher numbers being
>>> towards the rear.
>>>
>>> If your computer is not throwing codes, your sensors are okay and do not
>>> need attention.
>> Yep, checked this out. Advance Auto read them for me, though I was told
>> by a mechanic they read the codes incorrectly. All three O2 sensors
>> read a 'too lean' condition. The guy who read the codes told me all
>> three sensors were bad - but a mechanic told me this is fine, it's a
>> different problem altogether.
>>
>> I took the mechanic's advice and pulled the fuel injectors. Replaced
>> one and cleaned the other five. It's running better but not 100%, so I
>> expect the remaining five need to go for better cleaning or replacement.
>>
>> Thanks again for the help,
>> -ben
>
>
> They sometimes tend to shoot the messenger instead of trying
> to figure out the message.
>
> If you have not already done so, you may get some
> improvement by cleaning the MAF sensor. It should be in the
> air pipe from the air cleaner to the throttle body. You
> will need an inexpensive set of tamper resistant torx bits
> to remove it. You can get 'em at Advance. Use a good
> residue free electrical cleaner and a cotton swap to clean
> the wires. Pictures are found on the net. The MAF is a
> component of mixture control by sensing the amount of air
> entering the engine. If it is sensing low because it is
> contaminated by the film produced by crankcase vapors over
> time, it will cause a lean mix and, many times, pinging like
> the timing is too far advanced or low octane fuel. Should
> take you about 10 minutes to clean it. You may also want to
> look up cleaning the throttle body and IAC while you are
> doing this. All free DIY work for the cost of a couple cans
> of spray cleaners.
>
> Lugnut
Awesome, thanks! I'll be able to do these this weekend.
-ben >> Stay informed about: '96 F150 O2 sensors... |
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External
Since: Jan 11, 2007
Posts: 1700
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: '96 F150 O2 sensors... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ben Snyder" <spamm76.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:T6KdnXwFWpxqHvjbnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>
>> "Ben Snyder" <spamm76.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:xIudnRV5c8Ma7_nbnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>>>> Now, your '96 is OBD II compliant, and there is a data port along the
>>>> bottom edge of the dash board, generally where your left leg rests
>>>> while driving, and your local autoparts store (and eBay) offer code
>>>> readers for a reasonable sum.
>>>>
>>>> The computer will spit out codes that will tell you what sensor is
>>>> giving readings that are outside of the expected range. If you haven't
>>>> got a code reader, AutoZone will let you use theirs for free, or
>>>> (depending on what state you are in) they will use the scan tool for
>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>> The upstream sensors are refered to as Bank 1 Sensor 1, Bank 2 Sensor
>>>> 1, Bank 1 Sensor 2, etc. Bank 1 is the bank that contains the #1
>>>> Cylinder, and Sensor 1 or Sensor 2 defines the location in the exhaust
>>>> system, with lower numbers being closer to the front, and higher
>>>> numbers being towards the rear.
>>>>
>>>> If your computer is not throwing codes, your sensors are okay and do
>>>> not need attention.
>>>
>>> Yep, checked this out. Advance Auto read them for me, though I was told
>>> by a mechanic they read the codes incorrectly. All three O2 sensors
>>> read a 'too lean' condition. The guy who read the codes told me all
>>> three sensors were bad - but a mechanic told me this is fine, it's a
>>> different problem altogether.
>>>
>>> I took the mechanic's advice and pulled the fuel injectors. Replaced
>>> one and cleaned the other five. It's running better but not 100%, so I
>>> expect the remaining five need to go for better cleaning or replacement.
>>>
>>> Thanks again for the help,
>>> -ben
>>>
>>
>> That is certainly possible. If ONE sensor read bad (only one co
>> up), I'd not hesitate to suspect a bad sensor. But, when all three
>> sensors throw a code, I'd have to look at different stuff.
>>
>> It isn't clear, does your truck currently have a lit Check Engine light?
>
> Yup, it's on.
>
>
Did you reset the codes then see which ones popped up again? Or are you
working from the code list that you got from reading the codes the first
time the light came on?
Sometimes a sensor will note an out of range condition and post a code but
not set the Check light on. When the Check light finally comes on, you pull
all of these codes and set to work fixing each of them. It might be better
to write a list, reset the codes, then if the Check light comes on again,
compare the codes you get at taht time with the ones you got earlier. Then
set about to repair any code that is on both lists.
Since you are getting a lean condition from three different sensors, odds
favor an actual lean condition more than a failed sensor. But, we been over
that before ... >> Stay informed about: '96 F150 O2 sensors... |
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