4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon

fotoman wrote:
> hi:
> i got super snow tires on all four wheels....and now on bare pavement
> I get vibration from front end when turning corners at slow
> speeds. ....would this be because of the sticky tires? or do I have to
> grease,oil something in the transmission 4WD ???
> thanks
> Rod
>

Do you mostly HEAR a noise or FEEL a 'jerkiness'/'binding'?

Possibly torque bind.

What was wrong with the old tires? Were you driving with a 'donut spare'
or different sized tires? Are the new super snows all the same size?

Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
 >> Stay informed about: 4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon 

fotoman wrote:
> hi:
> i got super snow tires on all four wheels....and now on bare pavement
> I get vibration from front end when turning corners at slow
> speeds. ....would this be because of the sticky tires? or do I have to
> grease,oil something in the transmission 4WD ???
> thanks
> Rod

In general, snow tires produce a lot of noise on dry pavement due to the
aggressive and deep grooves. The rubber rumbles because the deep grooves
allow it to squirm around more. If you hear more noise while taking slow
corners, then it's likely that you're hearing a cacophony of different
tires noises, where the inner tires travel slower and the other tires
travel faster around the apex.

However, if you can also feel a vibration through the steering during
this time, then it's a mechanical problem, not a tire problem.

Yousuf Khan

--
There is no failure, only delayed success
 >> Stay informed about: 4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon 

On Mar 1, 5:59 pm, Yousuf Khan wrote:
> fotoman wrote:
> > hi:
> > i got super snow tires on all four wheels....and now on bare pavement
> > I get vibration from front end when turning corners at slow
> > speeds. ....would this be because of the sticky tires? or do I have to
> > grease,oil something in the transmission 4WD ???
> > thanks
> > Rod
>
> In general, snow tires produce a lot of noise on dry pavement due to the
> aggressive and deep grooves. The rubber rumbles because the deep grooves
> allow it to squirm around more. If you hear more noise while taking slow
> corners, then it's likely that you're hearing a cacophony of different
> tires noises, where the inner tires travel slower and the other tires
> travel faster around the apex.
>
> However, if you can also feel a vibration through the steering during
> this time, then it's a mechanical problem, not a tire problem.
>
> Yousuf Khan
>
> --
> There is no failure, only delayed success

thanks for al the replies...I hear and feel vibration , just when
turning at very slow speed on dry pavement.
this did not happen until the pavement was dry. and it did not happen
with my all season regular tire.
probably a mechanical problem, and was thinking it might be the 4WD
system...
I don't drive it much (its a second car), so wonder also if its a
liquid ,hydraulic type of problem??..
thanks
Rod
 >> Stay informed about: 4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon 

fotoman wrote:

> On Mar 1, 5:59 pm, Yousuf Khan wrote:
>
>>fotoman wrote:
>>
>>>hi:
>>>i got super snow tires on all four wheels....and now on bare pavement
>>>I get vibration from front end when turning corners at slow
>>>speeds. ....would this be because of the sticky tires? or do I have to
>>>grease,oil something in the transmission 4WD ???
>>>thanks
>>>Rod
>>
>>In general, snow tires produce a lot of noise on dry pavement due to the
>>aggressive and deep grooves. The rubber rumbles because the deep grooves
>>allow it to squirm around more. If you hear more noise while taking slow
>>corners, then it's likely that you're hearing a cacophony of different
>>tires noises, where the inner tires travel slower and the other tires
>>travel faster around the apex.
>>
>>However, if you can also feel a vibration through the steering during
>>this time, then it's a mechanical problem, not a tire problem.
>>
>> Yousuf Khan
>>
>>--
>>There is no failure, only delayed success
>
>
> thanks for al the replies...I hear and feel vibration , just when
> turning at very slow speed on dry pavement.
> this did not happen until the pavement was dry. and it did not happen
> with my all season regular tire.
> probably a mechanical problem, and was thinking it might be the 4WD
> system...
> I don't drive it much (its a second car), so wonder also if its a
> liquid ,hydraulic type of problem??..
> thanks
> Rod
>

I didn't catch if your car is stick or auto. If auto, under the hood
will be a fuse box. One position in the box will accept a spare fuse
(15A IIRC) and placing the fuse there should force the Duty Solenoid C
to place the tranny in front wheel drive (FWD). If the vibration during
dry pavement, tight, slow turns is eliminated, that is 'usually'
diagnostic of an internal transmission problem. A few people have
reported that multiple drain/refill/drive cycles OR a full 'power flush'
have cured the problem. The solenoid's wiring might be damaged but most
people need the tranny repaired/replaced.

Confirm that the tires are all the same size and manufactirer/model AND
that they have proper air pressure as outline in the manual or on the
door pillar. Different sized tires can trigger engagement of the AWD
because an undersized tire is detected as slippage.

Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
 >> Stay informed about: 4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon 

wow thats a wealth of information, thanks Carl.
will check it out....
got a snow storm today, and car drove perfectly, went into AWD as soon
as it got slippery etc..
will check the solenoid fuse when it dries up again.
....i assume the drain/refill/drive cycles means transmission fluid
servicing.
thanks
Rod


On Mar 1, 10:24 pm, Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
> fotoman wrote:
> > On Mar 1, 5:59 pm, Yousuf Khan wrote:
>
> >>fotoman wrote:
>
> >>>hi:
> >>>i got super snow tires on all four wheels....and now on bare pavement
> >>>I get vibration from front end when turning corners at slow
> >>>speeds. ....would this be because of the sticky tires? or do I have to
> >>>grease,oil something in the transmission 4WD ???
> >>>thanks
> >>>Rod
>
> >>In general, snow tires produce a lot of noise on dry pavement due to the
> >>aggressive and deep grooves. The rubber rumbles because the deep grooves
> >>allow it to squirm around more. If you hear more noise while taking slow
> >>corners, then it's likely that you're hearing a cacophony of different
> >>tires noises, where the inner tires travel slower and the other tires
> >>travel faster around the apex.
>
> >>However, if you can also feel a vibration through the steering during
> >>this time, then it's a mechanical problem, not a tire problem.
>
> >> Yousuf Khan
>
> >>--
> >>There is no failure, only delayed success
>
> > thanks for al the replies...I hear and feel vibration , just when
> > turning at very slow speed on dry pavement.
> > this did not happen until the pavement was dry. and it did not happen
> > with my all season regular tire.
> > probably a mechanical problem, and was thinking it might be the 4WD
> > system...
> > I don't drive it much (its a second car), so wonder also if its a
> > liquid ,hydraulic type of problem??..
> > thanks
> > Rod
>
> I didn't catch if your car is stick or auto. If auto, under the hood
> will be a fuse box. One position in the box will accept a spare fuse
> (15A IIRC) and placing the fuse there should force the Duty Solenoid C
> to place the tranny in front wheel drive (FWD). If the vibration during
> dry pavement, tight, slow turns is eliminated, that is 'usually'
> diagnostic of an internal transmission problem. A few people have
> reported that multiple drain/refill/drive cycles OR a full 'power flush'
> have cured the problem. The solenoid's wiring might be damaged but most
> people need the tranny repaired/replaced.
>
> Confirm that the tires are all the same size and manufactirer/model AND
> that they have proper air pressure as outline in the manual or on the
> door pillar. Different sized tires can trigger engagement of the AWD
> because an undersized tire is detected as slippage.
>
> Carl
>
> --
> to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
 >> Stay informed about: 4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon 

fotoman wrote:

> wow thats a wealth of information, thanks Carl.
> will check it out....
> got a snow storm today, and car drove perfectly, went into AWD as soon
> as it got slippery etc..
> will check the solenoid fuse when it dries up again.
> ...i assume the drain/refill/drive cycles means transmission fluid
> servicing.
> thanks
> Rod
>
>
> On Mar 1, 10:24 pm, Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
>
>>fotoman wrote:
>>
>>>On Mar 1, 5:59 pm, Yousuf Khan wrote:
>>
>>>>fotoman wrote:
>>
>>>>>hi:
>>>>>i got super snow tires on all four wheels....and now on bare pavement
>>>>>I get vibration from front end when turning corners at slow
>>>>>speeds. ....would this be because of the sticky tires? or do I have to
>>>>>grease,oil something in the transmission 4WD ???
>>>>>thanks
>>>>>Rod
>>
>>>>In general, snow tires produce a lot of noise on dry pavement due to the
>>>>aggressive and deep grooves. The rubber rumbles because the deep grooves
>>>>allow it to squirm around more. If you hear more noise while taking slow
>>>>corners, then it's likely that you're hearing a cacophony of different
>>>>tires noises, where the inner tires travel slower and the other tires
>>>>travel faster around the apex.
>>
>>>>However, if you can also feel a vibration through the steering during
>>>>this time, then it's a mechanical problem, not a tire problem.
>>
>>>> Yousuf Khan
>>
>>>>--
>>>>There is no failure, only delayed success
>>
>>>thanks for al the replies...I hear and feel vibration , just when
>>>turning at very slow speed on dry pavement.
>>>this did not happen until the pavement was dry. and it did not happen
>>>with my all season regular tire.
>>>probably a mechanical problem, and was thinking it might be the 4WD
>>>system...
>>>I don't drive it much (its a second car), so wonder also if its a
>>>liquid ,hydraulic type of problem??..
>>>thanks
>>>Rod
>>
>>I didn't catch if your car is stick or auto. If auto, under the hood
>>will be a fuse box. One position in the box will accept a spare fuse
>>(15A IIRC) and placing the fuse there should force the Duty Solenoid C
>>to place the tranny in front wheel drive (FWD). If the vibration during
>>dry pavement, tight, slow turns is eliminated, that is 'usually'
>>diagnostic of an internal transmission problem. A few people have
>>reported that multiple drain/refill/drive cycles OR a full 'power flush'
>>have cured the problem. The solenoid's wiring might be damaged but most
>>people need the tranny repaired/replaced.
>>
>>Confirm that the tires are all the same size and manufactirer/model AND
>>that they have proper air pressure as outline in the manual or on the
>>door pillar. Different sized tires can trigger engagement of the AWD
>>because an undersized tire is detected as slippage.
>>
>>Carl
>>
>>--
>>to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
>
>
>

Yes, a few folks have fixed 'torque bind' with fluid change(s). The DIY
approach is to drain and replace fluid 2-3 times(since most home
mechanics cannot drain the torque converter, a few cycles of draining
will be required to really assure mostly fresh fluid), driving a few
days in between, hoping to dissovle gummy depostits on the solenoid
seat/valves I guess. A 'power flush' is best done by a shop and actually
replaces all the fluid.

You may want to search 'torque bind' here and/or at www.ultimatesubaru.org

Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
 >> Stay informed about: 4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon 

Carl:
I sure it was 'torque bind', but car had been sitting for three weeks
in subzero temperatures.
fluid might have been cold??...it has since snowed, and I gave the car
a good run in the snow, and
could hear when the 4WD kicked in as I was giving it a
run...intentionally causing slippage so as to
activate the 4WD. Anyway, the car is running perfectly again now...I
will replace the fluid anyway!
Rod
thanks for the further info and website too.




On Mar 2, 11:06 pm, Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
> fotoman wrote:
> > wow thats a wealth of information, thanks Carl.
> > will check it out....
> > got a snow storm today, and car drove perfectly, went into AWD as soon
> > as it got slippery etc..
> > will check the solenoid fuse when it dries up again.
> > ...i assume the drain/refill/drive cycles means transmission fluid
> > servicing.
> > thanks
> > Rod
>
> > On Mar 1, 10:24 pm, Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
>
> >>fotoman wrote:
>
> >>>On Mar 1, 5:59 pm, Yousuf Khan wrote:
>
> >>>>fotoman wrote:
>
> >>>>>hi:
> >>>>>i got super snow tires on all four wheels....and now on bare pavement
> >>>>>I get vibration from front end when turning corners at slow
> >>>>>speeds. ....would this be because of the sticky tires? or do I have to
> >>>>>grease,oil something in the transmission 4WD ???
> >>>>>thanks
> >>>>>Rod
>
> >>>>In general, snow tires produce a lot of noise on dry pavement due to the
> >>>>aggressive and deep grooves. The rubber rumbles because the deep grooves
> >>>>allow it to squirm around more. If you hear more noise while taking slow
> >>>>corners, then it's likely that you're hearing a cacophony of different
> >>>>tires noises, where the inner tires travel slower and the other tires
> >>>>travel faster around the apex.
>
> >>>>However, if you can also feel a vibration through the steering during
> >>>>this time, then it's a mechanical problem, not a tire problem.
>
> >>>> Yousuf Khan
>
> >>>>--
> >>>>There is no failure, only delayed success
>
> >>>thanks for al the replies...I hear and feel vibration , just when
> >>>turning at very slow speed on dry pavement.
> >>>this did not happen until the pavement was dry. and it did not happen
> >>>with my all season regular tire.
> >>>probably a mechanical problem, and was thinking it might be the 4WD
> >>>system...
> >>>I don't drive it much (its a second car), so wonder also if its a
> >>>liquid ,hydraulic type of problem??..
> >>>thanks
> >>>Rod
>
> >>I didn't catch if your car is stick or auto. If auto, under the hood
> >>will be a fuse box. One position in the box will accept a spare fuse
> >>(15A IIRC) and placing the fuse there should force the Duty Solenoid C
> >>to place the tranny in front wheel drive (FWD). If the vibration during
> >>dry pavement, tight, slow turns is eliminated, that is 'usually'
> >>diagnostic of an internal transmission problem. A few people have
> >>reported that multiple drain/refill/drive cycles OR a full 'power flush'
> >>have cured the problem. The solenoid's wiring might be damaged but most
> >>people need the tranny repaired/replaced.
>
> >>Confirm that the tires are all the same size and manufactirer/model AND
> >>that they have proper air pressure as outline in the manual or on the
> >>door pillar. Different sized tires can trigger engagement of the AWD
> >>because an undersized tire is detected as slippage.
>
> >>Carl
>
> >>--
> >>to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
>
> Yes, a few folks have fixed 'torque bind' with fluid change(s). The DIY
> approach is to drain and replace fluid 2-3 times(since most home
> mechanics cannot drain the torque converter, a few cycles of draining
> will be required to really assure mostly fresh fluid), driving a few
> days in between, hoping to dissovle gummy depostits on the solenoid
> seat/valves I guess. A 'power flush' is best done by a shop and actually
> replaces all the fluid.
>
> You may want to search 'torque bind' here and/or atwww.ultimatesubaru.org
>
> Carl
>
> --
> to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
 >> Stay informed about: 4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon 

I have a 1996 Outback and as far as the fuse under the hood, I went so far as to connect a switch to it and make it so I can run in 2wd or 4wd when ever I want, because we were having a problem with the torque windup and our local Subaru Dealer gave us a pint of Mopar limited slip additive to give it a try and it worked no more torque windup anyone having the problem before doing anything else, I would try this it took care of the problem, before I got out of the driveway and has still fixed it after 10,000 miles and my brother in laws had the same problem and his was fixed also, will save some money if it works for ya.
 >> Stay informed about: 4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon 

I just don't understand you people. "burdock" seems to be the only one in
this thread that has a clue about AWD. The rest of you keep saying "I can
feel it kick into 4WD". This makes no sense. You bought an AWD Subaru. AWD
means All Wheel Drive. aka Full Time 4WD. It doesn't kick in or out. It's on
all the time. Some AT models allow you to install a fuse (or a switch) to
defeat AWD, but the rest are always driving front and rear, period.
DS

"burdock" wrote in message

>I have a 1996 Outback and as far as the fuse under the hood, I went so
> far as to connect a switch to it and make it so I can run in 2wd or
> 4wd when ever I want, because we were having a problem with the torque
> windup and our local Subaru Dealer gave us a pint of Mopar limited
> slip additive to give it a try and it worked no more torque windup
> anyone having the problem before doing anything else, I would try this
> it took care of the problem, before I got out of the driveway and has
> still fixed it after 10,000 miles and my brother in laws had the same
> problem and his was fixed also, will save some money if it works for
> ya.
>
> "fotoman" wrote:
> > Carl:
> > I sure it was 'torque bind', but car had been sitting for
> > three weeks
> > in subzero temperatures.
> > fluid might have been cold??...it has since snowed, and I gave
> > the car
> > a good run in the snow, and
> > could hear when the 4WD kicked in as I was giving it a
> > run...intentionally causing slippage so as to
> > activate the 4WD. Anyway, the car is running perfectly again
> > now...I
> > will replace the fluid anyway!
> > Rod
> > thanks for the further info and website too.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mar 2, 11:06 pm, Carl 1 Lucky Texan
> > wrote:
> > > fotoman wrote:
> > > > wow thats a wealth of information, thanks Carl.
> > > > will check it out....
> > > > got a snow storm today, and car drove perfectly, went into
> > AWD as soon
> > > > as it got slippery etc..
> > > > will check the solenoid fuse when it dries up again.
> > > > ...i assume the drain/refill/drive cycles means
> > transmission fluid
> > > > servicing.
> > > > thanks
> > > > Rod
> > >
> > > > On Mar 1, 10:24 pm, Carl 1 Lucky Texan
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > >>fotoman wrote:
> > >
> > > >>>On Mar 1, 5:59 pm, Yousuf Khan wrote:
> > >
> > > >>>>fotoman wrote:
> > >
> > > >>>>>hi:
> > > >>>>>i got super snow tires on all four wheels....and now on
> > bare pavement
> > > >>>>>I get vibration from front end when turning corners at
> > slow
> > > >>>>>speeds. ....would this be because of the sticky tires?
> > or do I have to
> > > >>>>>grease,oil something in the transmission 4WD ???
> > > >>>>>thanks
> > > >>>>>Rod
> > >
> > > >>>>In general, snow tires produce a lot of noise on dry
> > pavement due to the
> > > >>>>aggressive and deep grooves. The rubber rumbles because
> > the deep grooves
> > > >>>>allow it to squirm around more. If you hear more noise
> > while taking slow
> > > >>>>corners, then it's likely that you're hearing a
> > cacophony of different
> > > >>>>tires noises, where the inner tires travel slower and
> > the other tires
> > > >>>>travel faster around the apex.
> > >
> > > >>>>However, if you can also feel a vibration through the
> > steering during
> > > >>>>this time, then it's a mechanical problem, not a tire
> > problem.
> > >
> > > >>>> Yousuf Khan
> > >
> > > >>>>--
> > > >>>>There is no failure, only delayed success
> > >
> > > >>>thanks for al the replies...I hear and feel vibration ,
> > just when
> > > >>>turning at very slow speed on dry pavement.
> > > >>>this did not happen until the pavement was dry. and it
> > did not happen
> > > >>>with my all season regular tire.
> > > >>>probably a mechanical problem, and was thinking it might
> > be the 4WD
> > > >>>system...
> > > >>>I don't drive it much (its a second car), so wonder also
> > if its a
> > > >>>liquid ,hydraulic type of problem??..
> > > >>>thanks
> > > >>>Rod
> > >
> > > >>I didn't catch if your car is stick or auto. If auto,
> > under the hood
> > > >>will be a fuse box. One position in the box will accept a
> > spare fuse
> > > >>(15A IIRC) and placing the fuse there should force the
> > Duty Solenoid C
> > > >>to place the tranny in front wheel drive (FWD). If the
> > vibration during
> > > >>dry pavement, tight, slow turns is eliminated, that is
> > 'usually'
> > > >>diagnostic of an internal transmission problem. A few
> > people have
> > > >>reported that multiple drain/refill/drive cycles OR a full
> > 'power flush'
> > > >>have cured the problem. The solenoid's wiring might be
> > damaged but most
> > > >>people need the tranny repaired/replaced.
> > >
> > > >>Confirm that the tires are all the same size and
> > manufactirer/model AND
> > > >>that they have proper air pressure as outline in the
> > manual or on the
> > > >>door pillar. Different sized tires can trigger engagement
> > of the AWD
> > > >>because an undersized tire is detected as slippage.
> > >
> > > >>Carl
> > >
> > > >>--
> > > >>to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
> > >
> > > Yes, a few folks have fixed 'torque bind' with fluid
> > change(s). The DIY
> > > approach is to drain and replace fluid 2-3 times(since most
> > home
> > > mechanics cannot drain the torque converter, a few cycles of
> > draining
> > > will be required to really assure mostly fresh fluid),
> > driving a few
> > > days in between, hoping to dissovle gummy depostits on the
> > solenoid
> > > seat/valves I guess. A 'power flush' is best done by a shop
> > and actually
> > > replaces all the fluid.
> > >
> > > You may want to search 'torque bind' here and/or
> > > atwww.ultimatesubaru.org
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > --
> > > to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
 >> Stay informed about: 4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon 

DS wrote:
> I just don't understand you people. "burdock" seems to be the only one in
> this thread that has a clue about AWD. The rest of you keep saying "I can
> feel it kick into 4WD". This makes no sense. You bought an AWD Subaru. AWD
> means All Wheel Drive. aka Full Time 4WD. It doesn't kick in or out. It's on
> all the time. Some AT models allow you to install a fuse (or a switch) to
> defeat AWD, but the rest are always driving front and rear, period.
> DS
>

It's apparent that you've never driven a Soobie in snow or other "less
than tractionally optimum conditions".

Yes, there's a percentage of power going to all 4 wheels at all times ,
the amount depends on the AWD system and the conditions.

There's a very noticeable (and usually audible) change when a large
amount of power is routed to the rear in the older 90/10 system. That's
what most people mean by "kicked in". I haven't driven a 50/50 or VDC
equipped Soob, so I can't say how those act.
 >> Stay informed about: 4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon 

Uh, I live in Winnipeg - my Outback has been through heavy snow and major
ice many, many, many times. In fact, from November to April, we typically
have snow and/or ice on our roads. Mine is a 98 5speed and thus 50/50
default biased. There is never any audible change. Same thing in my previous
Talon AWD (basically the same system but with a rear LSD). Also, same thing
in my friend's Audi A4, my dad's VW Passat 4-Motion, my step-mother's Volvo
XC70 and my coworker's WRX. I have driven older automatic Foresters and
Legacy's through snow and ice and I have never noticed any "change" when the
AWD system varies its torque distribution. The vehicle typically just
hunkers down and goes. Even on sheer ice, wheels spin, wheels grab and you
go.

I would suggest that anyone noticing a audible change should have their car
checked because this does not seem right. It should be invisible to the
driver except for extra traction.

DS

"nobody >" wrote in message

> DS wrote:
>> I just don't understand you people. "burdock" seems to be the only one in
>> this thread that has a clue about AWD. The rest of you keep saying "I can
>> feel it kick into 4WD". This makes no sense. You bought an AWD Subaru.
>> AWD means All Wheel Drive. aka Full Time 4WD. It doesn't kick in or out.
>> It's on all the time. Some AT models allow you to install a fuse (or a
>> switch) to defeat AWD, but the rest are always driving front and rear,
>> period.
>> DS
>>
>
> It's apparent that you've never driven a Soobie in snow or other "less
> than tractionally optimum conditions".
>
> Yes, there's a percentage of power going to all 4 wheels at all times ,
> the amount depends on the AWD system and the conditions.
>
> There's a very noticeable (and usually audible) change when a large amount
> of power is routed to the rear in the older 90/10 system. That's what most
> people mean by "kicked in". I haven't driven a 50/50 or VDC equipped Soob,
> so I can't say how those act.
 >> Stay informed about: 4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon 

DS wrote:
> Uh, I live in Winnipeg - my Outback has been through heavy snow and major
> ice many, many, many times. In fact, from November to April, we typically
> have snow and/or ice on our roads. Mine is a 98 5speed and thus 50/50
> default biased. There is never any audible change. Same thing in my previous
> Talon AWD (basically the same system but with a rear LSD). Also, same thing
> in my friend's Audi A4, my dad's VW Passat 4-Motion, my step-mother's Volvo
> XC70 and my coworker's WRX. I have driven older automatic Foresters and
> Legacy's through snow and ice and I have never noticed any "change" when the
> AWD system varies its torque distribution. The vehicle typically just
> hunkers down and goes. Even on sheer ice, wheels spin, wheels grab and you
> go.
>
> I would suggest that anyone noticing a audible change should have their car
> checked because this does not seem right. It should be invisible to the
> driver except for extra traction.
>
> DS

You and I must be talking about two different things. Yesterday, I made
a "heavy throttle" entry into traffic (left turn). I got some wheel spin
and felt/heard "some kind of action" going on as power went to the rear.
Sort of a "soft thud" and the feeling that something was going on in the
center differential.

I've had the same when playing in the snow with the same "heavy
throttle" action on my '00 Outback, my wife's '97 Outback Sport, and (in
heavy rain) on two '96-'03 era Soobs I test drove before buying the '00.
I doubt that all four of these have a problem.




>
> "nobody >" wrote in message
>
>> DS wrote:
>>> I just don't understand you people. "burdock" seems to be the only one in
>>> this thread that has a clue about AWD. The rest of you keep saying "I can
>>> feel it kick into 4WD". This makes no sense. You bought an AWD Subaru.
>>> AWD means All Wheel Drive. aka Full Time 4WD. It doesn't kick in or out.
>>> It's on all the time. Some AT models allow you to install a fuse (or a
>>> switch) to defeat AWD, but the rest are always driving front and rear,
>>> period.
>>> DS
>>>
>> It's apparent that you've never driven a Soobie in snow or other "less
>> than tractionally optimum conditions".
>>
>> Yes, there's a percentage of power going to all 4 wheels at all times ,
>> the amount depends on the AWD system and the conditions.
>>
>> There's a very noticeable (and usually audible) change when a large amount
>> of power is routed to the rear in the older 90/10 system. That's what most
>> people mean by "kicked in". I haven't driven a 50/50 or VDC equipped Soob,
>> so I can't say how those act.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: 4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon 

On the Saturn Vue automatic with AWD, the fronts spin, then a few seconds
later a loud thunk and the rears launch you. Did not feel or sound good. My
2005 Forester XS with manual transmission, Limited slip rear, never seems to
spin, and on snow and ice, all the wheels seem to break loose under hard
acceleration. I never feel or hear the system working. It just works great.
Not sure how quick the 4EAT can transfer power though.

Blair

"nobody >" wrote in message

> DS wrote:
>> Uh, I live in Winnipeg - my Outback has been through heavy snow and major
>> ice many, many, many times. In fact, from November to April, we typically
>> have snow and/or ice on our roads. Mine is a 98 5speed and thus 50/50
>> default biased. There is never any audible change. Same thing in my
>> previous Talon AWD (basically the same system but with a rear LSD). Also,
>> same thing in my friend's Audi A4, my dad's VW Passat 4-Motion, my
>> step-mother's Volvo XC70 and my coworker's WRX. I have driven older
>> automatic Foresters and Legacy's through snow and ice and I have never
>> noticed any "change" when the AWD system varies its torque distribution.
>> The vehicle typically just hunkers down and goes. Even on sheer ice,
>> wheels spin, wheels grab and you go.
>>
>> I would suggest that anyone noticing a audible change should have their
>> car checked because this does not seem right. It should be invisible to
>> the driver except for extra traction.
>>
>> DS
>
> You and I must be talking about two different things. Yesterday, I made a
> "heavy throttle" entry into traffic (left turn). I got some wheel spin and
> felt/heard "some kind of action" going on as power went to the rear. Sort
> of a "soft thud" and the feeling that something was going on in the center
> differential.
>
> I've had the same when playing in the snow with the same "heavy throttle"
> action on my '00 Outback, my wife's '97 Outback Sport, and (in heavy rain)
> on two '96-'03 era Soobs I test drove before buying the '00. I doubt that
> all four of these have a problem.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> "nobody >" wrote in message
>>
>>> DS wrote:
>>>> I just don't understand you people. "burdock" seems to be the only one
>>>> in this thread that has a clue about AWD. The rest of you keep saying
>>>> "I can feel it kick into 4WD". This makes no sense. You bought an AWD
>>>> Subaru. AWD means All Wheel Drive. aka Full Time 4WD. It doesn't kick
>>>> in or out. It's on all the time. Some AT models allow you to install a
>>>> fuse (or a switch) to defeat AWD, but the rest are always driving front
>>>> and rear, period.
>>>> DS
>>>>
>>> It's apparent that you've never driven a Soobie in snow or other "less
>>> than tractionally optimum conditions".
>>>
>>> Yes, there's a percentage of power going to all 4 wheels at all times ,
>>> the amount depends on the AWD system and the conditions.
>>>
>>> There's a very noticeable (and usually audible) change when a large
>>> amount of power is routed to the rear in the older 90/10 system. That's
>>> what most people mean by "kicked in". I haven't driven a 50/50 or VDC
>>> equipped Soob, so I can't say how those act.
>>
 >> Stay informed about: 4WD noise from front end ,2000 Subaru outback wagon