10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance?

On Jul 29, 8:05 pm, Jim3... DeleteThis @msn.com wrote:
> My Beetle's engine has been running hot, gas bubbles in the carb, and
> it doesn't have the performance it used to have?
>  I checked out everything like:
> * Tune-up and
> * compression check
>
> Do you think it might have anything to do with the 10% ethanol Gas?
>
> Any help will be appreciated!
> Thanks In Advance!

Don't know about your bug but it sure causes problems with my
chainsaws and other small engines. Especially when it's hot.

Randy
 >> Stay informed about: 10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance? 

On Jul 29, 9:05 pm, Jim3....RemoveThis@msn.com wrote:
> My Beetle's engine has been running hot, gas bubbles in the carb, and
> it doesn't have the performance it used to have?
> I checked out everything like:
> * Tune-up and
> * compression check
>
> Do you think it might have anything to do with the 10% ethanol Gas?
>
> Any help will be appreciated!
> Thanks In Advance!
---------------------------------------------------------
I found two good links.

http://www.vw-resource.com/additives.html#ethanol

Here is a quote from the link above:
"However, no one has picked up the subject of older carbureted cars.
The addition of ethanol to gasoline causes big problems in a VW
engine, as ethanol makes the engine run 4% leaner. To compensate for
10% ethanol in gasoline (called E10 in some places), you must increase
the main jet by two steps (e.g., from X125 to X130) and the idle jet
by one step (from 55 to 60), as 10% ethanol makes the engine run 4%
leaner."

Here is another good link:
http://aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/jetting.htm

Here is a quote from this link:
"Why Jet? If it's too rich, the extra fuel will wash the oil off your
cylinders and wear out your pistons, cylinders, and rings quickly (no
oil), in addition to building up deposits on your valves, heads, and
piston tops. If it's too lean, the engine will run very hot, misfire,
and can eventually lead to a burnt valve(s). Get it right!"
 >> Stay informed about: 10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance? 

Darn, I just filled up with the stuff. I,ll tell you in a fortnight!!!
Oz John
 >> Stay informed about: 10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance? 

modern oxygenated gas needs to run richer. You might consider a larger
main jet in the carb. Hotter is a sign of running lean.
 >> Stay informed about: 10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance? 

> It very well could cause a loss in performance. I need to locate a
> station near me that sells 100% gasoline...
>
> Les

Try the airport. 100low-lead aviation fuel is pure gasoline. You'll
know if you have the 'good stuff' if you take a sample in a clear
container, it'll be a light blue color.

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: 10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance? 

Alcohol requires more fuel-to-air than gasoline therefore mileage tends to
suffer. Dual-fuel systems use computer controlled fuel injectors therefore
they do not require different jets. Carbureted engines do better with
rejetting.

However, in my modest experience so many ACVWs are out of tune so it's hard
to tell when mileage suffers from A10; it's just plain lousy anyway.
 >> Stay informed about: 10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance? 

I am going to have to side with John C. at http://aircooled.net and
Rob ‘aussiebug’ and Dave at http://vw-resource.com .

Here are two more links:

http://aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=FSK0043&ca...d=07292


Solex, Brosol, Bocar and Kadron Main Jets
Part #: FSK0043
Price: $ 7.00 Due to oxygenated fuel, bumping your main jet size up a
little will make your car run better AND cooler. We recommend 130 the
34-3, and Kadron applications, even though Kadrons have 135s when new.
You need 1 main jet per carburetor.

------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel#Criticism_and_controversy

Fuel system problems
Several of the outstanding ethanol fuel issues are linked specifically
to fuel systems. Fuels with more than 10% ethanol are not compatible
with non E85-ready fuel system components and may cause corrosion of
ferrous components.[126][127] Ethanol fuel can negatively affect
electric fuel pumps by increasing internal wear,[127] cause
undesirable spark generation,[128] and is not compatible with
capacitance fuel level gauging indicators and may cause erroneous fuel
quantity indications in vehicles that employ that system.[129] It is
also not always compatible with marine craft, especially those that
use fiberglass fuel tanks.[130][131]
Using 100% ethanol fuel decreases fuel-economy by 15-30% over using
100% gasoline; this can be avoided using certain modifications that
would, however, render the engine inoperable on regular petrol without
the addition of an adjustable ECU.[132] Tough materials are needed to
accommodate a higher compression ratio to make an ethanol engine as
efficient as it would be on petrol; these would be similar to those
used in diesel engines which typically run at a CR of 20:1,[133]
versus about 8-12:1 for petrol engines.[134]

In April 2008 the German environmental minister cancelled a proposed
10% ethanol fuel scheme citing technical problems: too many older cars
in Germany are unequipped to handle this fuel. Ethanol levels in fuel
will remain at 5%.[135]




------------------
On Jul 30, 3:52 pm, Jim3... RemoveThis @msn.com wrote:
> On Jul 29, 9:05 pm, Jim3... RemoveThis @msn.com wrote:> My Beetle's engine has been running hot, gas bubbles in the carb, and
> > it doesn't have the performance it used to have?
> > I checked out everything like:
> > * Tune-up and
> > * compression check
>
> > Do you think it might have anything to do with the 10% ethanol Gas?
>
> > Any help will be appreciated!
> > Thanks In Advance!
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> I found two good links.
>
> http://www.vw-resource.com/additives.html#ethanol
>
> Here is a quote from the link above:
> "However, no one has picked up the subject of older carbureted cars.
> The addition of ethanol to gasoline causes big problems in a VW
> engine, as ethanol makes the engine run 4% leaner. To compensate for
> 10% ethanol in gasoline (called E10 in some places), you must increase
> the main jet by two steps (e.g., from X125 to X130) and the idle jet
> by one step (from 55 to 60), as 10% ethanol makes the engine run 4%
> leaner."
>
> Here is another good link:http://aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/jetting.htm
>
> Here is a quote from this link:
> "Why Jet? If it's too rich, the extra fuel will wash the oil off your
> cylinders and wear out your pistons, cylinders, and rings quickly (no
> oil), in addition to building up deposits on your valves, heads, and
> piston tops. If it's too lean, the engine will run very hot, misfire,
> and can eventually lead to a burnt valve(s). Get it right!"
 >> Stay informed about: 10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance? 

>the 68 vw type 1 was designed to be timed on
91 octane regular gas<

The label on my '68 VW Type 1's gas filler flap specifies 91 RON. Typically,
the conversion from 91 RON to US octane is 87.

Al Adams
 >> Stay informed about: 10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance? 

"Dennis" <weewik.RemoveThis@grm.net> wrote in message
news:59290ad9-a1e1-4ed8-b0d6-d3ecf70afd7b@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> I stand by all I said.
>You did get me to check some of my older books( these books are older
>than your driving experience and back when gasoline had some octane to
>begin with). For example the 68 vw type 1 was designed to be timed on
>91 octane regular gas. If you timed with lower, cheaper gas with
>lower octane you should retard the timing to compensate or you could
>risk pinging under full throltle and or the engine running hotter than
>it should. Yes, hotter with to much advance on lower octane, cooler
>with higher octane. Not my opinion, just the facts. Dennis
you are entirely correct Dennis... it is "fact" that the 1968 vw did call
for 91 octane fuel.. i can snap a picture of the inside of my 1968 type 1's
fuel filler flap for you... and then i can highlight where it specifies 91
RON rating... which is usually 4 points higher than the fuel rating we use
here in the good ole USA(" (R+M)/2 " )...
just do a google search on " Octane Rating " you will find what i said above
is not just my opinion, it is true... so fill'r'up with 87 (R+M)/2 (US
rating system) octane and time is spot on to what the manual says and you
and your vw will be very happy....

for comparison i have a 1641 engine in my bug... it is built with a cam that
is slightly more agressive than a stock cam(cb cheater cam) and has a static
compression of 8.5:1... higher than anything vw ever set our cars at...it
ran beautifully on regular (87) fuel.... i added a turbo charger and can do
17PSI of boost on premium(93) without detonation... i think the stock bug
will be great with 87 octane fuel that it was intended to use..<G>
 >> Stay informed about: 10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance? 

"Dennis" <weewik RemoveThis @grm.net> wrote in message
news:e73abe55-441c-468e-b844-9052e73b172f@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>Ok, I give up.... I will not give up on the little bits of first hand
>knowledge I have like the blends I've made in my garage with E85 and
>regular gas and how it runs. In the past two years I have driven over
>60,000 miles on E85 and almost that much on E10 and the various
>blends. I will continue with what I know and what I learn. In 1963 I
>got my drivers lic. and took the test in my 57' oval and I've never
>lost my love for my vw's and cars in general. I will not bother you
>guys again since you seem to have much more knowledge and experience
>that I could ever absorb. Have a great time and thanks for the laughs
>and knowledge shared. Even though I have no plans to post here again,
>I do respect your opinions and what you have read. Dennis

that's just plain ole sad, Dennis... no one discounts your "experiences", as
we can't tell you what you experienced..... but that is exactly what you
implied in your post to me, that my experience was wrong... we only stated
that your information was incorrect... as a matter of fact, your "facts"
were not wrong, but your interpretation of them was... I assume it was just
because you didn't realize the octane rating...

now... personally i think the "i'm mad, so i'll take my ball and go home"
routine is overly done and a real bitch move... but that is up to you...
you've been here at RAMVA for years, to tuck your tale and run because you
were questioned over a little misinformation is bullshit... but have at
it...
 >> Stay informed about: 10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance? 

> now... personally i think the "i'm mad, so i'll take my ball and go home"
> routine is overly done and a real bitch move... but that is up to you...
> you've been here at RAMVA for years, to tuck your tale and run because you
> were questioned over a little misinformation is bullshit... but have at
> it...

It's turn your TAIL and run.

It never ceases to amaze me how you can come across as a dickhead 100%
of the time. Congrats. I owe you a beer for such an astounding
accomplishment.

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: 10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance? 

> now... personally i think the "i'm mad, so i'll take my ball and go home"
> routine is overly done and a real bitch move... but that is up to you...
> you've been here at RAMVA for years, to tuck your tale and run because you
> were questioned over a little misinformation is bullshit... but have at
> it...

It's turn your TAIL and run.

It never ceases to amaze me how you can come across as a dickhead 100%
of the time. Congrats. I owe you a beer for such an astounding
accomplishment.

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: 10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance? 

> you can deny the "dickhead" part all you want, but to post that thread you
> seriously need to read it... (you don't need me to prove a point, you did it
> well, shows i still own you)it make you look like the chump you are then,
> and it's even worse now... show me where i owe you 20 bucks and i'll paypal
> it do you ASAP.... as i said, above, and you did, "dance for me"....
> hahahaha...

I wrote the message I referenced, so yes, I have read it. And every
time you fill our lives with more of your infinite lack of wisdom you
make my original point even stronger, just as you have done here. You
don't own anything except a foul mouth and a bunch of bad advice. So
go ahead, tell me everything you know. I've got 30 seconds to spare.

Now, who's dancing for who? That's right. It's you. Dancing for me.
Now dance, dickhead

Chris
 >> Stay informed about: 10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance?