$5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks!

On May 25, 6:33 pm, "Roger Shoaf" <sh....RemoveThis@nospamsyix.com> wrote:
> "heav" <p....RemoveThis@inyopro.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c587719e-1cb0-42c5-a863-8daa33ef4953@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > If nuclear power is such a great idea, why won't the private insurance
> > companies insure it? Without government guarantees, all nuclear
> > plants would have to shut down today because no private insurance is
> > available.
>
> Guess they would have to shut down France also.
>
>
>
> > The best idea here in California for electric cars is to mount solar
> > panels on your roof to capture sunlight and convert it to electricity
> > to charge the batteries in the car.
>
> Ok explain the economics to me here. How much would it cost for the panels?
> and how much would it cost for the equipment to charge the batteries? If I
> work during the day it would also seem to me that my car would be at work,
> so I guess I would need two sets of batteries and swap them out either when
> I get home from work or in the morning before I go to work.
>
>
>
> > On an industrial scale and a central power generation model, large
> > solar farms can be built out in the desert and used to separate
> > hydrogen and oxygen to fill fuel cells which can be transported to
> > fueling stations for hydrogen powered cars.
>
> Really? How many acres of solar panels would it take to make enough hydrogen
> to run a semi accross country (3,000) miles?
Trust me, the desert is huge. There are environmental preservation
factors that have to be considered there as well, but I read recently
that 19% of the vacant desert area of Arizona receives enough sunlight
to provide all the energy needs of the current U.S. economy. And
there are pro capitalist Chamber of Commerce types here in the desert
where I live on our local Board of County Supervisors who see this as
a huge opportunity for our depressed rural economy and are pursuing
solar farms with great vigor.

Semis, and I know it is unfortunate for the many truck drivers who
make a pretty decent living, will have to become a thing of the past.
Freight will be moved by electrically powered trains because steel on
steel is the most energy efficient form of transport.

> >http://www.zerocarbonhouse.com/Home.aspx
>
> Nuclear power is zero carbon.
It is not zero carbon. Huge amounts of carbon are released into the
atmosphere in the construction and mining and refining phases. You
can't just dig up uranium ore and put it into a reactor and you are
not going to be able to do that work with nuclear powered tractors.

And it is not plutonium free or strontium 90 free or cesium 137 free,
and those are really a bitch.
 >> Stay informed about: $5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks! 

You are going to have to take the train to work, or an environmentally
sensible bus. Without abundant, cheap oil, we are going to have to
get to an economy that does not move two tons of glass and steel along
with every person wherever they go. That paradigm has proved itself
unsustainable.

But we can use our imaginations and creativity to create a world that
is both sustainable and a better place to live.

That should have been obvious to everyone in the 70s, but,
unfortunately we have wasted 30 years we could have been transitioning
to a sustainable future. But there is adequate time and fossil fuel
to build the economy we need.

I don't know if this is correct or not, I doubt it actually, but I
read yesterday that we are importing up to 80% of our oil now. With
manufacturing shipped overseas in search of cheap labor and no
environmental regulation and faith in the dollar evaporating fast, how
are we going to continue to import $1.5 - $2.5 billion worth of oil a
day?

At some point the tankers are all going to head for China where all
the value added goods are being produced. And that day may not be far
off. Diesel is $5.29 at the local station here in California right
now. We have to question how long our economy, which is based on
credit, can sustain that sort of drain. The "stimulus" money the
government is borrowing from places like China and sending out to
people who filed taxes will not even cover a few months worth of the
extra energy costs we all are incurring.
 >> Stay informed about: $5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks! 

heav turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

> On May 25, 6:33 pm, "Roger Shoaf" <sh....RemoveThis@nospamsyix.com> wrote:
>> "heav" <p....RemoveThis@inyopro.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:c587719e-1cb0-42c5-a863-8daa33ef4953@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > If nuclear power is such a great idea, why won't the private insurance
>> > companies insure it? Without government guarantees, all nuclear
>> > plants would have to shut down today because no private insurance is
>> > available.
>>
>> Guess they would have to shut down France also.
>>
>>
>>
>> > The best idea here in California for electric cars is to mount solar
>> > panels on your roof to capture sunlight and convert it to electricity
>> > to charge the batteries in the car.
>>
>> Ok explain the economics to me here. How much would it cost for the
>> panels?
>> and how much would it cost for the equipment to charge the batteries? If
>> I work during the day it would also seem to me that my car would be at
>> work, so I guess I would need two sets of batteries and swap them out
>> either when I get home from work or in the morning before I go to work.
>>
>>
>>
>> > On an industrial scale and a central power generation model, large
>> > solar farms can be built out in the desert and used to separate
>> > hydrogen and oxygen to fill fuel cells which can be transported to
>> > fueling stations for hydrogen powered cars.
>>
>> Really? How many acres of solar panels would it take to make enough
>> hydrogen to run a semi accross country (3,000) miles?
> Trust me, the desert is huge. There are environmental preservation
> factors that have to be considered there as well, but I read recently
> that 19% of the vacant desert area of Arizona receives enough sunlight
> to provide all the energy needs of the current U.S. economy.

I was reading in popular science about the rebirth of the mirror generators.
Using sunlight direct to DC is inefficient and expensive, while sunlight to
heat a steam (or oil) turbine is very cheap. We have one in southern
california, and apparently are going to get several more soon.

Still, having a solar array on my roof wouldn't be bad either. I've been
looking at it for some time.

Either that or somehow take extra - erm - methane after the pizza parties
and converting that a-la Mad Max.

--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

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 >> Stay informed about: $5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks! 

PerfectReign wrote:

>> that 19% of the vacant desert area of Arizona receives enough sunlight
>> to provide all the energy needs of the current U.S. economy.
>
> I was reading in popular science about the rebirth of the mirror generators.
> Using sunlight direct to DC is inefficient and expensive, while sunlight to
> heat a steam (or oil) turbine is very cheap. We have one in southern
> california, and apparently are going to get several more soon.
>
> Still, having a solar array on my roof wouldn't be bad either. I've been
> looking at it for some time.

>
OK, enough of these grand edge of tomorrow ideas, what about the
backyard. I live in the suburbs of Phoenix. I have the world's best
(and free) source of drying and heat about 350 days a year.
BUUUUUUUUTTTTTT, my HOA does not allow a clothesline or a water solar
panel, even if the street or my neighbors can't see it.

Chip
 >> Stay informed about: $5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks! 

Chip turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:

> PerfectReign wrote:
>
>>> that 19% of the vacant desert area of Arizona receives enough sunlight
>>> to provide all the energy needs of the current U.S. economy.
>>
>> I was reading in popular science about the rebirth of the mirror
>> generators. Using sunlight direct to DC is inefficient and expensive,
>> while sunlight to heat a steam (or oil) turbine is very cheap. We have
>> one in southern california, and apparently are going to get several more
>> soon.
>>
>> Still, having a solar array on my roof wouldn't be bad either. I've been
>> looking at it for some time.
>
>>
> OK, enough of these grand edge of tomorrow ideas, what about the
> backyard. I live in the suburbs of Phoenix. I have the world's best
> (and free) source of drying and heat about 350 days a year.
> BUUUUUUUUTTTTTT, my HOA does not allow a clothesline or a water solar
> panel, even if the street or my neighbors can't see it.

HOA's - the #1 reason for advocating anarchy!

You could also install a nuclear power reactor. Just go to the local 7-11
and purchase some U

Here in California, I've found that the state will offset some portion of
the costs

http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/erprebate/tax_credit.html

I'm also seriously considering this type of system now -
http://www.greendiesel1.com/index.html - I know the big issue with many is
having to start in cold weather. However, in an area where the temperature
never drops below 50 Fahrenheit, I can't see the problem. Considering I've
seen $5.01 and up for diesel and I can get veggie oil delivered for $2.50,
it is a no-brainer.

The only thought is between Lovecraft or Elsbett and running something like
50% WVO. I suppose I could go with a two-tank system, but not sure of the
actual benefits for a warm climate like here.


I'm thinking that - even if it costs a bit more in the short-term - the
benefits long-term will be substantial.


--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org

powered by the lizard: www.opensuse.org
 >> Stay informed about: $5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks! 

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 >> Stay informed about: $5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks! 

> pure train brain nonsense, are those buses and trains powered by pixie
> dust?
The light rail and buses are powered by electricity, which can be
produced from renewable sources.

There is enough harvestable wind energy in North Dakota to provide
the total amount of energy used in the U.S. today. And a lot of
people have already installed wind generators on their farms and are
making a lot of money. I read a story in Smithsonian Magazine about a
farmer in the Buffalo Ridge area along the Minnesota/Dakotas border
who was making $13,500 a day on windy days from the electricity sales
from the turbines installed on his farm. The turbines were expensive,
but he was able to find financing and he was operating them at a
profit.

http://www.hendricksmn.com/wind_towers.html

http://www.xcelenergy.com/XLWEB/CDA/0,3080,1-1-1_1875_4797_4014-3636-0...0-0,00.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Ridge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_plants_in_the_Mojave_Desert#M...ve_Sola

Who likes working graveyard shift anyway? Or traveling at night?
Our culture will have to adapt, but a green future is very much a real
possibility, and it will not just be sustainable, it will be better!
 >> Stay informed about: $5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks! 

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 >> Stay informed about: $5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks! 

On May 27, 10:57 am, heav <p....TakeThisOut@inyopro.com> wrote:
> > pure train brain nonsense, are those buses and trains powered by pixie
> > dust?
>
> The light rail and buses are powered by electricity, which can be
> produced from renewable sources.
>
> There is enough harvestable wind  energy in North Dakota to provide
> the total amount of energy used in the U.S. today.  And a lot of
> people have already installed wind generators on their farms and are
> making a lot of money.  I read a story in Smithsonian Magazine about a
> farmer in the Buffalo Ridge area along the Minnesota/Dakotas border
> who was making $13,500 a day on windy days from the electricity sales
> from the turbines installed on his farm.  The turbines were expensive,
> but he was able to find financing and he was operating them at a
> profit.
>
> Our culture will have to adapt, but a green future is very much a real
> possibility, and it will not just be sustainable, it will be better!

And, even if powered by conventional fuels, buses and trains,
especially trains, are far more fuel efficient per passenger. It
really isn't that hard to figure out. Unfortunately this country (US)
has built its cities around the automobile with sprawling suburbs and
few mass transit options. It's a lack of foresight we are beginning to
feel the pinch of.
 >> Stay informed about: $5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks! 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: $5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks! 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: $5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks! 

Update! $5.20/gallon for diesel this afternoon; $4.45 for premium gas.
--

© 2008 T.G.Lambach. Publication in any form requires prior written
permission.
 >> Stay informed about: $5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks! 

I don't know what your architecture looks like, but in my home there
is a railing around the opening where the stairway that leads to the
upstairs is and that railing is great for drying clothes. I also have
one of those small, folding wooden racks for drying clothes that I
inherited from my mother that works great for smaller items.

I never use and do not even have a dryer. I didn't even use the one I
had when I lived in Seattle because they break the fibers in your
clothes when they tumble them and cause your clothes to wear out
faster. I don't really like shopping, so I want my clothes to last as
long as possible.

Here in the desert things dry out almost as fast as you can hang them
up. Even in Seattle they dry overnight.

> OK, enough of these grand edge of tomorrow ideas, what about the
> backyard. I live in the suburbs of Phoenix. I have the world's best
> (and free) source of drying and heat about 350 days a year.
> BUUUUUUUUTTTTTT, my HOA does not allow a clothesline or a water solar
> panel, even if the street or my neighbors can't see it.
>
> Chip
 >> Stay informed about: $5.00 Diesel - time to put her up on blocks!